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Thread: How Build a Poplar Side Grain Glue-Up Vanity Counter?

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    How Build a Poplar Side Grain Glue-Up Vanity Counter?

    I want to build a vanity counter out of poplar, with an under-mount bathroom sink. I'l picturing a butcher-block type look, but I want to basically flip a bunch of 1 X 2 poplar strips so their narrow 3/4" edge is up, and glue the 1.5" faces together. Is this going to work?

    My brother, who builds museum quality furniture, tells me it's a bad idea because the wood will shift and cracks will develop. I don't mind keeping it oiled or applying Waterlox or something to it frequently. Please help. Is there a tried and true method for this or should I give up?

  2. #2
    Seasonal dimensional changes depend upon how the wood is cut but if the wood is all the same species and is all cut the same way, it should all expand and contract together. The issues your brother warns you against could come if you fasten the top to the case without providing for the inevitable movement. If you fasten the top so it can move as it needs to, though, you shouldn't have any problem.

    I wouldn't think poplar would make a good top due to its softness.

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    I don't think this is a good idea for a bathroom vanity with an undermount sink. I think the combination of moisture and endgrain in the sink area will lead yo early failure / issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    I don't think this is a good idea for a bathroom vanity with an undermount sink. I think the combination of moisture and endgrain in the sink area will lead yo early failure / issues.
    I agree, poplar and moisture don't work well together.
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    Darn, not the advice I was looking for. Really? I'm sure there is a way for it to be done properly. Poplar may have some benefits over water loving wood. Poplar's softness may keep it from cracking at the joints, no? And what about all these finishing products that protect wood from water (e.g., Waterlox) or even a good penetrating oil like danish oil? With a little bit of care, wouldn't it be possible to build a beautiful, lasting, countertop?

    I may be wrong. I'm just not ready to abandon my idea.

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    Hi Eric, Here are a few thoughts - 1st off most people don't think of poplar as beautiful . But, yes, if you love it your glue up and finish plan can work. Most of the wood movement would be in the 1-1/2" dimension - up & down. The movement across the top can be mitigated by NOT fastening it down hard to your base cabinetry but allow it to float. Look up table top connectors for some relatively easy ways of dealing with that. If you seal your c-top completely and thoroughly with Waterlox - top bottom sides ends but most importantly at the sink cutout you should be fine. Danish oil will not create enough of a barrier. Varnishes or urethanes are surface treatments that will require monitoring (again, especially at the sink cut out). The Waterlox will penetrate the wood and with 3 or 4 or 5 brushed on coats - none of that wipe on stuff - you will build a real good barrier. Waterlox is exceptional in this regard. Read a recent post in the finishing section for more insight as to how to use AND WHAT Waterlox to use. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...th-this-finish After your c-top is thoroughly dry (no less than 24 hours between coats + week extra just to be sure) go ahead and mount your sink.

    The only other note I could add is that when you under mount a sink in a c-top there should be a 1/2" to 1" of c-top over laying the sink edge. Along the underside of that wood overlay - approx. 1/4" top 3/8" from the cutout you should add an 1/8" deep kerf around the perimeter of the opening. This will catch water as it flows from the top to the underside - the water will hit that kerf and stop long enough to fall into the sink rather than continuing to run along the undersurface of the c-top to the sink edge where it would otherwise collect and rot your c-top. If you have end grain in the cut out opening it would be wise to lightly sand then add a coat of Waterlox at least once each year to maximize the life of your beautiful c-top.

    Enjoy, Sam

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    Sam, thanks so much for taking the time to explain a good way to build this. I understand your instructions and they make sense. Have you done this before? I would love to see a picture.

    Okay, yeah, poplar. I know it gets a bad rap. I have two 80 year poplars in my yard and have developed a fondness for them. I also like the wood's creamy sapwood and dark heartwood. I know people consider it a paint grade wood but I made some poplar shelves 6 years ago and they have aged to a beautiful rich color, while still holding the contrast. However, you got me thinking, since I am using side grain (if I can call it that), I may not get to appreciate said contrasts as much. Maybe poplar is a poor choice. What woods would be happier with the dampness? Other than Maple. I'm bored with maple and my sweat stains it purple.

    African mahagony is easy to get and not too pricey but I don't think it's the right look. Too orange. What about birch? I'm a big fan of birch.

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    I wasn't commenting on the poplar so much as the idea of having the end grain in the sink cut-out area. I think the key to success is sealing that end grain completely so it doesn't wick moisture and cause swelling and then shrinkage as it dries out. Over time this cycle will lead to failure. If you could really seal it to prevent moisture wicking you would have it made. I suspect, like you mentioned, this will need to be repeated regularly.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Jacobson View Post
    Sam, thanks so much for taking the time to explain a good way to build this. I understand your instructions and they make sense. Have you done this before? I would love to see a picture.

    Okay, yeah, poplar. I know it gets a bad rap. I have two 80 year poplars in my yard and have developed a fondness for them. I also like the wood's creamy sapwood and dark heartwood. I know people consider it a paint grade wood but I made some poplar shelves 6 years ago and they have aged to a beautiful rich color, while still holding the contrast. However, you got me thinking, since I am using side grain (if I can call it that), I may not get to appreciate said contrasts as much. Maybe poplar is a poor choice. What woods would be happier with the dampness? Other than Maple. I'm bored with maple and my sweat stains it purple.

    African mahagony is easy to get and not too pricey but I don't think it's the right look. Too orange. What about birch? I'm a big fan of birch.
    No Eric, sorry no photos. The last 2 I did with an undermount sinks were conventional plank top - one of teak and one of walnut but the sink cut out area was done just as I describe with the kerf/drip detail. I am confident that you'll be fine if you do as Pat and I write which is to make certain that any end grain is properly sealed. Can be done and Waterlox is a good choice. If you in fact end up with end grain in your sink area you could take it one step further and seal the end grain with thin coats of 2 part epoxy (not a 5 minute thing) but like West sytem. The end grain will absorb until saturated and may take 3 applications - then sand your top and underside to get rid of any drips and finish those areas with Waterlox. (You could tape the top and underside to eliminate some of the mess while doing the end grain.) The species of wood is almost irrelevant as you will be depending on your seal coats for waterproofing, so whatever you prefer. One other caution is don't make a picture frame with molding around your top. You need to allow to wood to move and anything other than open ends or a bread board end will defeat that objective. Please do better than me and provide photos.. Also, tonight there is a good thread going about staining poplar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    One other caution is don't make a picture frame with molding around your top.
    Sam, are you talking about the backsplash? I was wondering about this. How can I build the backsplash without leaving a gap for water to seep between the bottom of the backsplash and the top perimeter of the counter top? I can attach the backsplash to the wall and use some very flexible caulk maybe? I can't picture a breadboard end becoming a backsplash.

    And one more question: I always pictured glued up 1 x 2's , glued at their faces. I'm not sure why. I guess to give a nice thick appearance around the sink opening. My wife is starting to talk me out of it, arguing for conventional plank top. What are the pros/cons other than cosmetics? I'm second guessing my plan for the butcher-block-style top. She says it would look dumb and suggest that someone might by cutting meat in the bathroom or something.

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    I would go with Sam's suggestion of sealing the endgrain with a good two part epoxy, West Systems or System Three brands. I would also suggest that you use a waterproof glue for your glue-up. You can use the same epoxy or a PVA such as Titebond III.

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    Not the back splash. I'm thinking that you might choose to put a molding around the edge of your top -at least the front and 2 ends. Don't (read above). Honestly the plank top might look nicer - might - but your idea of a butcher block construction is a great one for this application. I like the thicker top and in order to achieve that with planks you are introducing issues that would start another thread . Of course, people do this all the time, but not with an undermount sink. As for a backsplash and how it connects to the c-top, that is always a problem. Same thing - seal the piece very well and then yes, lay a nice bead of silicone caulking along the entire length. The caulk bead should be a straight line on the front half of your backsplash so that it oozes out from under - just a bit. You could ease the underside of the back splash with a groove or a back facing angled cut (1/4" away from the front edge) to minimize wood to wood contact, but those details don't work if the ends of the back splash will be visible - you'll see your relief cut. OK - more later?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    You could ease the underside of the back splash with a groove or a back facing angled cut (1/4" away from the front edge) to minimize wood to wood contact,
    What's the problem with wood to wood contact between a backsplash and c-top?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Jacobson View Post
    What's the problem with wood to wood contact between a backsplash and c-top?
    No problem really but the undercut just removes some of the contact point where water might sit for years without drying out. A good seal with flexible caulking eliminates that issue. It's just that if the seal is broken the wood to wood isn't trapping moisture.

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