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Thread: Kickback on Camera

  1. #31
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    HOLY SMOKES . You are one crazy dude! Thanks for a great and dramatic/never to forget lesson, but PLEASE DON'T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT AGAIN Riving knife good - push pad bad!

    And now to promote a great controversy: My only push stick for the past 20 years has been this or something like it

    P2171333.jpg

    It is a 9" long soft metal "spike", this one made from an old paint roller frame. You could do it in such a way so that the paint roller handle is still attached but over the years I have come to prefer this. The metal is soft enough that if you do run into your blade the tip will snip off easily BUT DON'T DO THAT!

    IMPORTANT NOTE I keep the tip pointed but not so sharp that it sticks so well in my wood that it doesn't release. I like it to hold the wood but not to stick in. The push stick has allowed me great control over my work. I can completely control the end of any piece passing through the saw (or jointer). No other push stick design has ever given me the complete sense of security (and real control) that this design allows. Yes, it leaves a tiny pin prick in all my work. 98% of the time that is eliminated by the next cross cut, but when the hole needs to show I call it a trade mark of safe work. The idea of a pointed stick like this freaks people out until they try it, so you too, please don't be freaked out - this thing really does an important job very well. Yes, I have all my fingers, eyes etc. after nearly 35 years behind a table saw. But, like all of us, I have some stories... Take care out there - keep your wits.

  2. #32
    Quick rule of thumb (or lost thumb as the case may be). 10" blade running at 4000 rpm is about 120 mph. By the time you see it happening and send the impulse to move your hand it is over. I rip with thumb and index finger and ALWAYS hook the other three around or over the fence. Not really a fan of those push pads for everything. You have all of your fingers wrapped around the thing and if something really bad kicks back it will be your fist that goes into the blender. Prob stop halfway to your elbow. You cannot depend on the pad staying in your had, vid shows that. Pad also prevents spare fingers from hooking onto the fence.
    Still got ten.

  3. #33
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    My word, that is just nuts. I've been on the receiving end of a kick back that missed my face by so little I could feel the breeze going past my ear. Don't think I'd try to recreate that without wearing depends. You sir are motivated in a manner unencumbered by logical thought. Now I've seen crazy TS tricks, idiots trying to wrestle a metal lathe, and I work with a guy that lost most of his hand to a shaper kick back, so I know how that looks. Its like watching one of those police chase shows, what will come next, a man trying to stop a BS with his teeth?

    I've never used one of those rubber lined teeter totters they call push blocks any where near a TS and your excellent video shows why. No control, no feedback, nearly lost a finger there. I don't think you can possibly hold back a kick back once its started, that may have been a large part of the danger there. Oh, and where the heck is your splitter?

  4. #34
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    I appreciate you posting this video. It was very enlightening. Not the kind of kickback I have been concerned with and I hope I never have that happen to me. Now, where can I get a riving knife for my Ridgid tablesaw or do you make them?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Turner View Post
    Tom - WOW! Not sure what to say about you making the video without getting my post deleted Unfortuantely though, some have to see something like that to get the point across...so my hat's off to ya' for making it.

    Just outta curiosity though, how long did it take you to get the nerve up to do it?

    I have an older '80's model Craftsman. Been running it for years without the blade guard/splitter. Over the past few months, I've seen alot of folks post pics of the accidents because they DIDN'T have one on. Ordered myself one and been running with it now for a few months.

    Thanks again for the video!
    I had been thinking about this video for over a year and have been talking to people about how to do it as safely as possible but yet show a full--on kickback. the reason we went with the push block was the rubber bottom that gave me the grip I needed to get the piece turned intot he blade WHEN I WANTED IT AND EXPECTED IT, the push handles just did not have a good enough grip. And with the push block I was able to be pulling on the handle back into the fence while I rotated the front of the piece. That muscle tension rather than pushing jsut may have saved the fingers. As we can see, no matter how much planning and thinking, this was still dumber than I anticipated....
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hintz View Post
    I had been thinking about this video for over a year and have been talking to people about how to do it as safely as possible but yet show a full--on kickback. the reason we went with the push block was the rubber bottom that gave me the grip I needed to get the piece turned intot he blade WHEN I WANTED IT AND EXPECTED IT, the push handles just did not have a good enough grip. And with the push block I was able to be pulling on the handle back into the fence while I rotated the front of the piece. That muscle tension rather than pushing jsut may have saved the fingers. As we can see, no matter how much planning and thinking, this was still dumber than I anticipated....
    I bet in hindsight you can think of a lot of ways to do it safer...even though you would NEVER do it again!
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  7. #37
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    Wow. WOW. I just said every expletive in the book. Major goosebumps.

    It made me relive my forehead kickback injury... Kickback is no joke- my permanently disfigured forehead is living proof... Be glad that you don't have such "proof" yourself my friend!

    Here's my thread in case anybody is curious, but as the title warns, the pictures are bloody!

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...RY-PICTURES!!)

  8. #38
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    Ten minutes AFTER I put my first TS together and had my first and only major kickback, I watched Kelly Meher's introduction to the Table Saw video. Should have been the other way. That kick back put a black and blue mark on my groin, left an indelible mark on my brain, gave me a great fear of my equipment and led to the purchase of a lot of safety equipment. This video recommends the use use of a riving knife. That probably would have done it, but a splitter that has anti-kickback pawls might have even worked better, or The Grrr-Ripper System (2 for long pieces). Even then, analyze the procedure and if it looks shakey, STOP and figure out a better way.

  9. #39
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    There is a reason new tablesaws require a riving knife, they work, and they work better than a splitter. The knife is right behind the blade, whereas a splitter is inches behind the blade, and sometimes disaster is but a fraction of an inch away. Even my Skil flooring saw with a tiny 4 3/8" blade so hidden you can hardly see it has a riving knife.

  10. #40
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    Tom don't do that no more!!
    Fred

  11. #41
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    No version 2.0 please.

    I really enjoy your website - but that convinces me that you should stick mainly to tool reviews.

    I still admire your intentions for the test though.
    Stan

  12. #42
    Tom, I'm glad you were not hurt.

    As a caution to all who read this, please be aware that a splitter or riving knife will NOT prevent kickbacks. While either may help mitigate the severity of such events, they are not a guarantee of safety - not even close. For maximum safety, develop methods of working that guide the wood into the saw as straight as possible and that allow for no divergence from a straight path that is parallel to the blade. Your method should be so convenient and so workable that you can and will use it every time you operate the saw, without fail.

    Short handled push blocks like the sanding pad used in the video leave your hands too close to the blade - we all saw how that worked. Any kind of metal stick is to be avoided - the last thing you want is metal shrapnel spit back at you, or a metal arrow to pierce your body. For push sticks, wood or plastic are good choices. I use an 18" long piece of wood about 3/8" by 1 1/2" with a small notch in the end. This pusher is placed on the piece to be cut such that it is to the blade side of the center of the wood. This directs the forces applied to push the wood toward the fence, keeping it there and not swiveling back into the path of the blade while additionally holding the wood down on the table surface.

    I don't hold the pusher with the end in my palm, I let the end extend back out of my grip so that a kickback does not ram the stick into my palm. The pusher is purposely selected so that its not very stout and it has the edges eased to prevent cuts. My hand is far away from the blade and if something bad happens, the pusher will escape my grip without injury. Should all that fail, the stick will break before transmitting damaging force to my hand.

    The main idea I'd like to share here is that anyone using a table saw or other such tool needs to spend some time thinking about how to use the tool safely. Your safe operating technique, used every time you run the tool is what will save you.

  13. #43
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    Henry, I agree, there are no guarantees, but let me be the first to pile on about the use of small notch push sticks. In my book they are a no-no. I had one my son made in JH wood shop twenty some years ago. It helped start a nice fire in the fireplace several years ago after it finally broke. They do absolutely nothing to hold down the FRONT of a short board. And if (when) the blade starts to lift up the front of the board, it is usually not a good thing, therefore the migration to other methods which not only push, but hold down the board such as the Gripper (which I have not used but comes highly recommended) or the type of push block shown in the first 2 pics on post #21. Or you can simply make a long notch push stick with a notch at least 5 inches long. On short boards I will use a push block in conjunction with a feather board or a scrap of wood to hold the material against the fence until it passes the splitter. And once the board passes the riving knife or splitter, a violent kickback is unlikely as the board cannot rotate into the blade uncontrolled as in the video.

    I understand the theory behind it, but I find Sam's push prick downright scary. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Ole Anderson; 02-18-2012 at 11:57 PM.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Henry Ambrose View Post

    As a caution to all who read this, please be aware that a splitter or riving knife will NOT prevent kickbacks.
    Actually, a properly installed riving knife should make a kick back impossible.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Actually, a properly installed riving knife should make a kick back impossible.

    I agree, with the caveat that you have to be cutting a piece long enough to span the length of the exposed blade and reach the riving knife before the cut is complete. My kickback injury (posted earlier in this thread) happened while my riving knife was installed, but it was because I was cutting a very short piece of wood (really really stupid!!). It kicked back before it reached the riving knife.

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