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Thread: Kickback on Camera

  1. #46
    Note: The requests for the kickback video have far exceeded our ability to deal with individually. I am working around the clock to get a DVD (Blu-Ray also I think) put together and into production that we are going to sell through our store at the lowest price we can and still cover the cost. As soon as this is done we will have it listed in my on line store. We simply cannot handle this on a one-on-one basis anymore.
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  2. #47
    Yes, that is awesome video. I have had the kickback happen 2 times, once almost took off a finger (small chuck of skin) and the second left a good bruise on my chest from the piece of wood flying, it ended up in the back yard about 50 feet AFTER hitting me...never again!
    Last edited by Dave Wagner; 02-19-2012 at 3:04 PM.
    Dave W. -
    Restoring an 1890 Victorian
    Cuba, NY

  3. #48
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    I've become a huge fan of the Gripper, and use it constantly. I still have a similar scar on my abdomen from a kickback incident last year. Outfeed table slightly too high caused it. I'll never forget it.

    I've taken care of many people over the years with severed digits from table saws. Breaks my heart every time I see it. I really wish there was a foolproof safety measure that eliminates kickback. We've gone a long way with the riving knife, and the SawStop gets big credit for saving digits it's way, but we still have some way to go.

    Tom, you really do get serious points for posting the video. In medicine, occassionally there are very instructive case reports caused by someone doing something notably bad/dumb. The easiest course in maintaining your ego is to just to never publish the case. The whole world doesn't have to associate your name with a bizarre complication (the classic medical one is the NG tube in the brain). So huge kudos for having the intestinal fortitude to perform the public service and post the video. Hats off to you.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Actually, a properly installed riving knife should make a kick back impossible.
    "should"

    Trust me, its does not.
    Rely on a splitter or riving knife at your peril.
    They help but are not a cure-all.

  5. #50

    Darwin predicts

    Please don't produce a "hand gun cleaning" video; although your posthumous sales would likely be a record breaker.

    FWW covered this topic years ago and enough thought was put into the production of the piece that no one was hurt or looked foolish. The video posted in this thread is not instructional but cautionary.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post

    I understand the theory behind it, but I find Sam's push prick downright scary. Just my opinion.
    Completely understandable to be scared by a pointed metal push stick. I know that any kind of accident is possible regardless of how "careful" or "prepared " you are. Table saw accidents are explosive and no one can be that prepared, as Tom's video so vividly demonstrates. I don't offer my suggestion as the best of the worst, just a very good one for me and perhaps for someone else. Having said that and having tried every manner of push stick or pads - they all have their deficiencies. The one I use has given me the GREATEST CONTROL of any. The biggest downside of most notched push sticks is that they only hold your stock down at the very end and give you no lateral resistance whatsoever. My push stick allows me to secure the board 4" or 5" away from the end with a secure down force that allows me to push in any direction I need to maintain control. It is a very small contact point that lets me hold down smaller stock or profiled stock without getting anywhere near the blade. I have NEVER nicked off the end of one of these in over 20 years of use.

    I do have Table Saw rules that I adhere to very strictly (and insist that everyone who has ever worked with/for me follow as well - though I do not impose the use of "my push stick" on anyone). Safety and comfort with a procedure is too personal. Just a few rules that have guided me trough my professional career behind a table saw: 1st - I don't pass any piece of wood through the saw that is not longer than the exposed blade. I want as much bearing on the fence as possible so I try to keep every piece longer than I need until it is ripped to size and plan my stock use accordingly. I would rather throw away 3" of a board than 3 fingers any day. 2) Never rip a board in such a way that a pointed cut off is facing towards me - thick end to the driver - always. 3) Don't push one piece of stock through with another leaving your cutoffs to fall to the floor or cross cut a bunch of ends leaving the cut offs to lay around the table top until swept away. 4) If I must achieve a narrow rip (less than 3/8") I use all kinds of strategies to avoid that even if I must set the saw fence a few extra times in order to leave the big part of the board at the fence with my less than 3/8" piece being the cutoff. Obviously these are just a few - too many safety precautions that are almost second nature to me to recall as I sit here writing. Safety is the PRIME CONSIDERATION for me - everything else, economy, speed, easy, are all far behind as a priority if they compromise safety. I would never have done Tom's cut even without the "controlled" demonstration - the length of that piece of wood violated my rule # 1.

    OK, enough of what you already know. Just adding to an important discussion. Thanks.

    Sam
    Sam

    ~ Hard to take a guy who looks like this seriously but his 2 is worth all of that ~

  7. #52
    Note: Demand for this video has gone way beyond what we can handle individually. We are in the process of creating a DVD
    so now I have to buy this to see it?
    Carpe Lignum

  8. #53
    Join Date
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    Overland Park, KS
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    For what it's worth, they run a class at the Kansas City Woodworkers Guild in table saw safety. Using that pink hard foam insulation, they purposely reproduce all sorts of kickbacks so people can get a feel for what not to do. I've never taken the class but I guess foam flies all over the place and a great time is had by all.

  9. #54
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    wow, that was a nasty video and amazing how close your fingers came!

    that reminded me of my first days in shop class back in high school where our
    instructor had a jar of formaldehyde with two fingers inside of it hanging above
    the table saw and was a good reminder every time we used the saw to do it
    correctly!

  10. #55
    Hey Tom, why not just put it into the cloud?

    IMO some push devices are worse than none at all. The classic "PUSH STICK" and derivatives thereof do not provide adequate stock control since they hold down only the back of the board. As far as I'm concerned, an educator demonstrating with such a device or a manufacturer selling or including one with a saw is toeing the line of negligence. It's simply not the best tool for the job, just looking at pictures of them makes me uncomfortable. A pointed metal rod? Not in my shop.




    An effective push device provides sufficient surface area and control geometry to hold stock down while pushing it forward. There is physical connection with both the top and the back of the stock being cut (not just friction on top from a rubber pad) and the users's hand is kept a safe distance from the blade. Entrapping the user's hand in the device itself should be avoided (as Tom's video demonstrates, a push device can actually pull a user's hand into a spinning blade in the event of a kickback.) A single design will likely not do all tasks equally well.

    There are many good push devices to be bought, they're also easily made. Since these things do get cut up in routine use, they shouldn't be precious. The Gripper seems like an effective design, but at the rate things get damaged in our student shop, making them ourselves is more cost effective. We make the first below and a couple other iterations by the dozens on our cnc and toss them when they get chewed up.

    push.jpg push_sticks_and_push_blocks.jpg 420-4020_t.jpgpush_blocks.jpg

    -kg

  11. #56
    The first one pictured above (and re-posted here below) is very nice but in use it needs to be placed on the half of the stock nearest the blade. Pushing in the position as shown in the picture will result in the stock being directed away from the fence and into the blade. I suspect you did not mean to show it this way but only to stand it up for the photo. Without words though, the picture says something else.

    The other thing is that most of this thread has revolved around little scraps of wood that ought to be burned or discarded. That's my official position, but I do the same frequently and sometimes worse. Until you can figure out a really fool proof way to saw small scraps you're much better off not doing it at all. By the time a piece of wood gets to the around the size of our palm (and maybe not that small) it is too small to be cut safely on a table saw.




  12. #57
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    I can not believe that anyone would be dumb enough to do that. While it is somewhat instructional, it is just dumb. He came so close to cutting his finger.

  13. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Huskey View Post
    I bet in hindsight you can think of a lot of ways to do it safer...even though you would NEVER do it again!
    Yup. You don't have to worry about me doing that again! Maybe next we will investigate playing in traffic or something.....
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by phil harold View Post
    so now I have to buy this to see it?
    Yes. It's a get rich quick scheme. Or, you can just watch the one at the original link for free.
    "Because There Is Always More To Learn"

  15. #60
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    Excellent video. Thanks for sharing that.

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