Mexican made Nicholson files I tested are soft.

[george wilson]

I received a package of Mexican made Nicholson files a few days ago. They are triangular files. They look very well made,with sharp,accurately cut teeth. BUT,there have been discussions of them being soft here,so I took a fine cut USA made Nicholson mill file to the front edges of them. I was able to file a bevel about 1/32" wide before I got down to hardened steel. This means that the files are soft all the way through their teeth,even down to below the gullets.

I took an old new stock triangular USA made Nicholson,and it was hard as glass. I could not even begin to scratch the corner.

I do not know why these files are too soft. Maybe they are tempered at too high a temperature after hardening. They are very hard below the soft skin,but that leaves the teeth soft,too soft to file a saw made of 1095 steel,which even tried the durability of the old USA made Nicholsons. They might file lesser quality saws that are made of lower quality steel,or were hardened to a lower Rockwell number. Our saws were 52 Rockwel C.,as I am sure all of the expensive,small maker's premium saws. Even old Disstons were tempered several points below 52 R.C..

I could make these files useful by case hardening them in my electric furnace in a closed steel container of charcoal. Then,draw them till water would sizzle off them. That's how I treated my self made sets of riffler files. This was called "taking the snap out of it" in the old days. Unfortunately,how many of you are able to do this,or have the means?

I'm not bothering to order a #49 rasp,as I've seen pictures of how grossly oversize their teeth are. They look more like a horse rasp in the pictures! I don't need one anyway. Luckily I have a few USA made ones.

This is a truly low point in an American icon,and my favorite file brand. I doubt we will see improvements for years to come. It really is sad.

This is not a rant. It is the result of a careful test I made to these new triangular files,and I'm passing it on to you for your own conclusions.

I have searched for any rule against mentioning manufacturer's names,but haven't seen any. I know that the Saw Stop saw has been mentioned many times and discussed plenty,both positively and negatively.
I this post is against forum rules,please delete it and excuse my ignorance. I did not see Nicholson among our advertiser's list.

[Joe Bailey]

I was just (2 days ago) shopping for saw files online and noticed that the Nicholsons were made south of the border.
Just wanted to say thanks for this timely post, from one whose opinion in such matters, I respect.

[george wilson]

As far as I know,Grobets are still good. I really hate this. I could go to the hardware store and buy as good a file as ever needed. Now,I can't. I went to Home Depot,and bought out every one of their USA files still in stock.

[Shaun Mahood]

Am I correct in assuming that basically all new Nicholson files are made in Mexico? Is there a way to tell the difference in the store between the two?

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the testing and the report George.

I will be needing to purchase some files soon. Guess it will be the Grobets.

I wonder if there is anyone at Nicholson who could do anything about the dismal state of their files and rasps.

jtk

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Am I correct in assuming that basically all new Nicholson files are made in Mexico? Is there a way to tell the difference in the store between the two?

The packaging seems identical - the only way I've been able to tell is to look closely at the stamping on the shank of the file itself, which can be hard to see sometimes.

I've had decent luck with the indian files from Sears, but I've got a feeling they wouldn't hold up to a proper test like George's either. After having ordered a few files from TFWW, I'm begining to understand the difference.

It's a shame really - as George said, it's nice to be able to just pick up a file at the hardware store when you need one . . .

[John Coloccia]

When did they go to Mexico? Must be a recent thing. Just the other day I was steering someone away from the Nicholson rasps but mentioned that their files still seemed to be just fine. Shoot.

Oh well....I have to order practically every other tool. I guess Grobet it is, but it's not a full solution. For example, I don't believe Grobet makes a cant saw file.

[David Weaver]

Shaun - the bottom right of the US made file packages has "USA" in large print, with the letters the colors of the american flag.

A fraction of the flat files left at my BORG are nicholson USA, with some made elsewhere. I think the needle files are made in china (but you'd expect that, because a pack of 6 is about the price of one grobet swiss needle file).

I agree with george, the files are soft, and you can mangle the teeth pretty easily. I haven't filed 1095 with the nicholsons yet, but I have filed a few vintage saws with them OK. They are just noticeably less hard than a grobet swiss or an old us made simonds (the two i've tried that are very hard).

The indian made simonds are OK, and I think those are what wenzloff sells, and both the grobet USA (not sure where they're made, i think USA refers to the pattern, and they're actually made in eastern europe or india) and grobet swiss are good.

I won't buy any more nicholson files made in mexico, there's no reason to when the grobet USA files are as cheap or cheaper, and so are the simonds. There's no reason to reward them for making a poor product, and when I requested information from cooper tools using their information request form, they didn't have the courtesy to respond to my question.

[john brenton]

I don't know about the triangular files, but I know that some of Nicholson's other files are made in Brazil. I have a little set of small files...not needle files, but like palm sized 4" files. (two rat tails, a half round and a flat) and they have a lot of life in them.

In trying the Mexican vs. the American Nicholsons it is night and day. With the Mexican made Nicholsons you're going to pay $5 for a file that you'll pretty much only be able to use a few times for maintenance, and maybe ONCE for a saw that needs some shaping.

[Dave Anderson NH]

There is no prohibition against naming any company name in a review of a product. The only things we ask are that complaints be supported by facts, such as in this case where you did a test. The two things we are trying to avoid are comments that are disparaging and general about the toolmaker themselves such as, "all Nicholson products suck", and piling on by others that also are unsupported but are just ranting against the maker. Comments by others in a thread that denote the same results or problmes are fine as long as they stick to the facts.

[george wilson]

The triangular files have a TINY circular logo on them,about the size of the sterling stamps used on jewelry,that say made in Mexico. If you buy a box of 12,the box looks like an old time Nicholson file box,with the fancy,19th.C. green label,but you soon see it's not a separate paper label,but a photograph of the paper and the label all in one.

Like David says,I think the package of 1 file also has made in Mexico printed on the back.

There are times when I am glad I'm 71. I have enough good stuff to carry me through.

This same thing happened years ago,when the Gibson guitar Co. was bought out,and moved from Kalamazoo to Nashville. It was run into the ground on the name until it was bought again some years ago,by someone who cared to revive the quality. I hope this happens with Nicholson SOON.

[george wilson]

Thank you,Dave. Maybe I'll post close up pictures of the end of the file that I filed a bevel on with the old USA made file. You know I am qualified to evaluate this tool. I made it clear that this was not a rant,just saddening fact.

The files looked beautifully made when I took them out. Nice,extremely accurate teeth,a nice,properly tapered tang and all. I wonder if they are not properly protecting the files' surfaces when they are heated up for hardening. They should be coated with something to protect then from decarbing. The thing is,if you put such a file into a hardness tester,the tester's diamond will poke right through the thin,soft crust,and show the hardness within,which,as I said,is fully hard. A not fully experienced tool maker may think all is well.

I would go to Mexico for free if they paid my way,and get this straightened out,but the top management would not believe me,or know who I am,most likely. They are probably not tool people. They are probably money people. The same applies to the upper management of many companies and museums.

I have not tested any other Mexican Nicholson files. I hate buying files when I now SUSPECT (but do not yet KNOW) that the same softness might be found in them. I bought about 10 NOS USA Nicholson 8" smooth mill files while they were still on the shelves of Home Depot. They,and some several hundreds of other NOS files I have will see me through.

[Chris Vandiver]

The Grobet USA files are made in India and are pretty good. The Swiss Grobet are made in Switzerland and a very hard.

[Chris Vandiver]

There is no prohibition against naming any company name in a review of a product. The only things we ask are that complaints be supported by facts, such as in this case where you did a test. The two things we are trying to avoid are comments that are disparaging and general about the toolmaker themselves such as, "all Nicholson products suck", and piling on by others that also are unsupported but are just ranting against the maker. Comments by others in a thread that denote the same results or problmes are fine as long as they stick to the facts.

Just curious but do you require toolmakers to be factual in their advertising, as well.

[george wilson]

I mentioned that Grobets are still good. But,now,you have to pay shipping that costs as much as the file!! So,better buy in quantity. I don't ever recall seeing Grobets on the shelves of any stores here,or in Richmond.

I know the owner of the Woodcraft store in Richmond,Va. But,I'll bet he has to buy what the parent company has to sell him,as it is a franchise.

Over the years,I have noticed that Nicholson flat files have gotten thinner and thinner. Their once tapered tangs were just stamped out of the flat stock. When they started individually plastic wrapping them,it was no longer possible to examine each one,to see if it was straight,convex,or the dreaded "S" shaped warp,which isn't good at all.

I believe Grobets are all still thick as they should be,though the tangs are not tapered (but the tangs don't really matter),however they mark a BIT of a decline in my opinion(as in,what's next?)