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Thread: Jointer questions here and there, jointer questions everywhere!

  1. #16
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    I went from a Jet 6" to a Griz 8". Both long beds. The Jet impressed me with the fit and finish. You can find the Jet used for $300 or so. The 8" jointers go for $400 and up. Delta DJ-20s for up to a grand, used.
    I finally sold the Griz when I restored a 1930s Wallace short bed.
    I won't go back to a 6" as a lot of stock is wider than that.
    Never, under any circumstances, combine a sleeping pill, and laxative on the same night.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan eagle View Post
    I had a 6" grizzly jointer and upgraded to the 12" SCH grizzly JP. The bed length is about the same as I had before. I use it for jointing only. So I've never used it as a planer, actually.
    Use a jointer as a planer? Only a combo machine.

    I wonder if those who complain about Grizzly quality have ever used one at times! Probably not.
    I had both Jet and Grizzly. The Griz had a lot of sharp edges on the castings. The Jet beat it in that department.
    Never, under any circumstances, combine a sleeping pill, and laxative on the same night.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan eagle View Post
    The Grizzly quality wise is every bit as good as the Hammer. I wonder if those who complain about Grizzly quality have ever used one at times! Probably not.
    That is a bold statement and not generally backed up by those that have used both. Just an example would be the most recent review of it vs even the imported Jet where I think it was Roland Johnson who found the design of the Grizzly inferior to the Jet. Especially the most recent improved Hammer A3 is quite a ways in front of the Grizzly in design and production.

    Most people that have used Euro machines or American iron feel that those that compare the quality of Grizzly favorably against them probably have not used the former. I am not saying Grizzly is unfit for the job, but most of the Euro stuff and the well maintained American iron is on a different planet when it comes to quality and precision. Then again that is just my worthless opinion but I have owned and used several iterations of each.

    It is my firm belief the Hammer A3 line is significantly better than any of the J/Ps available for under $7K.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  4. #19
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    Machine quality is pretty much a function of price rather than brand. There can be some advantages depending on the currency translation from company to company but an $800 machine is generally pretty equivalent to other $800 machine. Same for $8000 machines. One might look nicer of have a feature we all like but no one here knows the quality of the cast iron used, the type of steel, the price of the bearings, or the manufacturing cost or quality of the motor. If a grizzly is as good as a Hammer it will cost about as much. If a Hammer is as good as a Felder, it will cost the same. If a Felder was as good as a Martin- oops, nothing is as good as a Martin. Markups may be somewhat different and manufacturing efficiencies somewhat different, but more often than not something less expensive is less well built. Fact of life. Dave There is a General 8" jointer for sale on www.owwm.org for $1000.
    Last edited by David Kumm; 02-24-2012 at 1:29 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Machine quality is pretty much a function of price rather than brand. There can be some advantages depending on the currency translation from company to company but an $800 machine is generally pretty equivalent to other $800 machine. Same for $8000 machines. One might look nicer of have a feature we all like but no one here knows the quality of the cast iron used, the type of steel, the price of the bearings, or the manufacturing cost or quality of the motor. If a grizzly is as good as a Hammer it will cost about as much. If a Hammer is as good as a Felder, it will cost the same. If a Felder was as good as a Martin- oops, nothing is as good as a Martin. Markups may be somewhat different and manufacturing efficiencies somewhat different, but more often than not something less expensive is less well built. Fact of life. Dave There is a General 8" jointer for sale on www.owwm.org for $1000.
    I don't really agree with the concept of that if it costs more , it must be better. As I said I can only compare the hammer bandsaw with the grizzly JP for tool quality. I am not comparing the grizzly JP with the A3. I really wish those who have strong comparative opinions support them with facts that they have actually owned both. I can't be the only one who finds such opinions as a little weak.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan eagle View Post
    I don't really agree with the concept of that if it costs more , it must be better. As I said I can only compare the hammer bandsaw with the grizzly JP for tool quality. I am not comparing the grizzly JP with the A3. I really wish those who have strong comparative opinions support them with facts that they have actually owned both. I can't be the only one who finds such opinions as a little weak.
    Jonathan, I'm confused by your post, have you compared the A3 with the Grixxly combination unit, or the N4400 with the Grizzly bandsaw?

    You seem to indicate that you need to compare like products (which I agree with) however you then compare unlike products?

    regards, Rod.

  7. #22
    As an owner of a 12" Grizzly J/P with a carbide helical cutter, I would certainly recommend it for the serious hobbyest. It replaced an 8" HSS knife jointer and a Dewalt 12" lunchbox planer. For questions in your original post,
    1) I feel the carbide head is a large improvement over the HSS knives. 800 - 900 board ft of hardwood through it without a noticeable dulling of the head. Having the J/P combo allows for the head to be used for both jointing and plaining. In Dec I ran some very figured 8" - 11" curly maple boards through the jointer and planer functions with very little to no pull out.

    2) You are correct that the J/P limits the length of of the jointer bed and this is indeed something to be considered before purchase. Edge jointing is never an issue but face jointing 10' and longer boards can be tiring. Thankfully the longer boards is a small part of what I work with.

    3) Over the last 1 1/2 years the grizzly machine has performed well and done everything I have asked of it. Short of the beds warping or motor failure, I do know of anything that could go wrong with it that I could not fix. Before purchasing, I looked at all of the models on the market and picked the one I felt offered the most value (bang for the buck).

    4) I have used the 12" jointer width more then I thought I ever would. Once you have the capability, it is hard to go back to the 8" or 6".

    Just my 2 cents...

    Mark

  8. #23
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    Jonathan, I agree that just because something costs more it isn't necessarily better. The variation in quality for machines though only holds true within a fairly narrow range. An $800 machine might be higher quality than someone elses $900 or $1000 machine and an $8000 machine might be better than another $8500 machine but you can't compare quality when the price gets much farther apart. Ultimately the market will crucify the companies that don't offer appropriate value. Look at the auto industry. You can compare an Audi to a BMW but not to a Chevrolet. some of the comparisons on this forum are about that far apart. The Chev might work just fine but that doesn't mean the components are of as high a quality. For a Grizzly to be built to the same standards as a Martin it would have to be priced much closer to a Martin. Lexus started out somewhat lower than Audi until the market was convinced of its quality and now it is priced higher. Dave

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonathan eagle View Post
    I don't really agree with the concept of that if it costs more , it must be better. As I said I can only compare the hammer bandsaw with the grizzly JP for tool quality. I am not comparing the grizzly JP with the A3. I really wish those who have strong comparative opinions support them with facts that they have actually owned both. I can't be the only one who finds such opinions as a little weak.

    In the general terms that Dave meant it I think it is somewhat hard to argue price doesn't follow quality. I don't think anyone would argue the Grizzly 633/634 is the quality equal of the Felder AD 531, but I also agree when talking about the Hammer A3 31 the equation gets closer. Having used but not owned either machine I can say very comfortably that IMO the Hammer has a pretty significant design advantage which carrys over into production. Again the Grizzly is fit for its intended use but the Hammer is significantly better in a number of ways but then it should be since with a helical head it is near twice the price and with straight knives it is about 1K more. The difference between the G0514 series and the Hammer N4400 is less both monetarily and quality wise, but in this case with the usually Felder haggling the price is just a few hundred dollars. In the machine world there is no free lunch, when machines are priced within 10-15% of each other there are certainly arguments to be made both ways but when the price spread begins to grow the argument is usually less about quality and more about value to the individual.

    If anyone is interested in me waxing poetic about the differences between the helical head Grizzy 12" J/P and the Hammer A3-31 with a Byrd head I would be happy to.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Jonathan, I'm confused by your post, have you compared the A3 with the Grixxly combination unit, or the N4400 with the Grizzly bandsaw?

    You seem to indicate that you need to compare like products (which I agree with) however you then compare unlike products?

    regards, Rod.
    Rod,
    I was talking about the quality level. Love the hammer by the way. Been doing some nice resawing with it.

  11. #26
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    Jonathan, thanks for the clarification.........Regards, Rod.

  12. #27
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    Van, I would be interested in your comments regading the two planers, also your comments regarding the A3 with straight knives VS helical..........Regards, Rod.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Van, I would be interested in your comments regading the two planers, also your comments regarding the A3 with straight knives VS helical..........Regards, Rod.
    Rod, I am not ducking your question as I need some time for that post. I will revisit in the next day or so. If I were to do it off the cuff it might look like a Grizzly bash since it would just be bullet points with the vast majority of them pro Hammer except price. I have only any real time with the helical head on each except for one or two cuts up on a straight knife A3 up in Delaware, so I can't give much FB there but knowing you don't use exotics and don't need to change knives even as often as toothbrushes I can't imagine the cost and trouble would be worth your while to switch, though I don't think anything but curiosity was the motivation there. I would suggest anyone looking at a A3 31 or 41 go ahead and sping for the head it is only $800 for either and is installed for you.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

  14. #29
    I went from a dj-15 to a dj-20, higher-quality models of each. The longer bed is worth the upgrade ( actually, with watchful fishing on the local CL, I sold the DJ-15 for what I paid for the DJ-20. I also swapped in a Byrd spiral cutter head. Most of this has been said, but I'll add my 4 cents ( inflation ! ).

    The force required to run a board through the spiral seems to be less.
    After a few sessions replacing or shifting nicked blades I got pretty fed up. The spiral is a short flick of the wrist to fix a nick. This was significant for me. Three giant carbide blades would be expensive and a little nutty. The little carbide chickletts on the spiral head just make a lot of sense.
    The spiral is a hair quieter.
    After a significant amount of lumber through the head I'm still happy with the sharpness. I think this is a pretty big deal. If it were the straight cutters I would have had to blow a couple Saturday mornings for two blade swaps, not to mention the expense of new blades or the annoyance of resharpening a set.
    The cut in figured wood is superior.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Sansom View Post
    I went from a dj-15 to a dj-20,

    I guess it is time for a DJ-30... The good thing about the DJ-30 is the Byrd head for it is one of the cheap ones.
    5,306 miles from where the greatest things with 4 wheels are born
    5,328 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels are born
    5,301 miles from where the greatest things with 2 wheels and a band are born
    Seems to be more than a coincidence to me...

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