HTC Roller Table on PM66 - Install Update (Long)

[Doug Shepard]

My new roller table was waiting for me yesterday when I got home. This is going on a PM66. I pulled the installation instructions and read through them last night. I'm planning on getting this put on during the upcoming holiday weekend. Everything looks pretty straight-forward. I read through the posts on this earlier thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10352 but that seems to be more geared to installation issues on a Unisaw.
Just wondering if anyone has any additional installation tips or stuff they left out of the instructions as it relates to a PM66 - before I start drilling holes in my TS.

Thanks

[Jim Becker]

The HTC setup is top-notch, Doug. I am curious about the decision process between the roller setup versus a solid outfeed table. How did your choice come about? I only ask because I find the outfeed surface to be an integral part of my shop over and above its "primary" use. I think your comments would be helpful to folks considering either solution.

[Steven Wilson]

Jim, I had the HTC rollers on my PM 66 prior to getting the CU350. Anyhow, I had a need to be able to park a car in the garage once and awhile. The rollers allowed me to leave the saw in place and when folded down I had room to park a car. I really liked the rollers especially for ripping stock and as support for the large panel/crosscut sled I used. When the table is raised you have two positions, one even with the tablesaw top, the other is roughly 1/4 below the top. This second (lower) position allows the rollers to work with miter guages or the runners of a panel sled.

[Doug Shepard]

The HTC setup is top-notch, Doug. I am curious about the decision process between the roller setup versus a solid outfeed table. How did your choice come about? I only ask because I find the outfeed surface to be an integral part of my shop over and above its "primary" use. I think your comments would be helpful to folks considering either solution.

Good to hear that there's no surprises in the installation instructions. As to the buying decision:
My workshop is 1/2 of a 2-1/2 car garage. Everything is on mobile bases and gets wheeled out for use when needed. Up til now I've been just using a rollerstand (and/or helper) when I have work that needs outfeed support on the TS. I thought about building a solid surface rollabout unit (w/ locking casters and storage drawers) but eventually dismissed it for the following reasons:
- My shop is uninsulated/unheated so my WW season is from Mid/Late March thru about late Sept. At the moment building my own unit would seriously eat up WW time that I'd rather be spending on other things.
- I had concerns about continually having to level a homemade stand to the TS every time I set it up, since they're both referencing off the same slightly uneven garage floor. Once installed correctly, the roller table is referenced to the TS top and I don't have to mess with it each time I need it.
- I'm really out of room to put things. Every corner, nook, and cranny is already filled with something on wheels. Finding the space to store a rollaround cab/OF unit is a real problem for me. The HTC just folds down out of the way on the back of the TS, taking up just a few more inches in depth.
- When I first started contemplating the HTC unit, the price ($249) initially put me off a bit, but then I started adding up the cost to build my own unit (high quality casters, BB ply, drawer slides, hardwood edging, laminate, etc), and the HTC started to look fairly reasonable.

If I had a dedicated workshop and could leave things permanently set up, I think I would have chosen to make my own OF table, but for right now this seems like the most logical choice for me.

[Ted Shrader]

Doug -

Check out this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14498.

I installed an outfeed roller table on my PM66 with no problems. Access to the inside of the cabinet to tighten the bolts was easy with the motor cover and clean-out door removed. (Saw unplugged, of course. ) Be sure to use a center punch to mark the holes for drilling.

Regards,
Ted

[Doug Shepard]

Doug -

Check out this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14498.

I installed an outfeed roller table on my PM66 with no problems. Access to the inside of the cabinet to tighten the bolts was easy with the motor cover and clean-out door removed. (Saw unplugged, of course. ) Be sure to use a center punch to mark the holes for drilling.

Regards,

Ted

Muchos gracias. Don't know how I managed to miss that thread when I was searching around a week or so ago. That's just what I was looking for - confirmation that the install doesn't have any surprises w/ respect to the instructions. One question - did you use the paper template as-is? For locating to the top, I had thoughts of spray gluing it to some scrap 1/8 hardboard for something rigid to butt up against MDF clamped to the saw surface and hanging off the back. Overkill?

[Ted Shrader]

Doug -

Think that may be a bit of overkill. I put some masking tape on the back of the saw cabinet to use as a marking surface for the center line. To mark the level, put a carpenters square on the top (long leg) and clamp a combination square to it (short leg) at the 3½" point. Then you can make sure the template is level all the way across by sliding the carpenters square back and forth. Tape the template in place and mark the holes with a center punch.

Good luck,
Ted

[Doug Shepard]

Well it's finally installed, but not without some problems. Nothing that couldn't be overcome, but it took more time and patience than I would have hoped for.
First a couple of observations: It appears HTC has changed specs quite a bit on this model over time. Unlike Ted's unit
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=14498 mine is white instead of black (which I would have preferred). The lower arm on the frame unit is also quite a bit different on Ted's. 4-bolts vs my 2-bolt attachment plus the geometry is a little different. His also installed on a PM66 without problems, while mine...

1) Unpacked all the hardware and compared it to the list of what should be in the box. Came up short 2 3/6-16 acorn nuts and 2 pivot pins, but had 2 3/8-16 x 2-1/2 hex bolts that weren't mentioned in the contents list. Two plasticky end caps that go on the frame unit were also there but not mentioned in the contents list. I'm also short two 1/4 lock-washers, but I've got plenty of those here, so no big deal.
I re-read the installation instructions and came to the conclusion that the extra bolts plus 2 acorn nuts were supposed to be used instead of 4 acorn nuts and 2 pivot pins for the folding support arm. Just to be sure, I called HTC. Got right through to customer service with no problems. They said my assumption was right - they HAD made a product change. However, they had since changed it back to the original scheme as they'd had some complaints re: smoothness of the pivot mechanism. So they took my name & address and are sending me 2 pivot pins and 2 more acorn nuts. In the meantime I can install the unit with what I have, then swap out the hardware when it gets here.

2) Started measuring and locating the template to the saw. Put tape on the rough locations where layout lines would need to be, then re-measure again and marked on top of the tape with a sharp pencil then darkened them up with a Sharpie for better visibility. Quickly realized that the post protruding from the back of the saw for attaching the blade guard interferes with attaching the template. I REALLY dont want to remove it so I work around it. Makes attaching the template take a lot longer than it should. Basically had to fold the top 1/2" of the template over and slide the template above the post, locating the folded edge against the layout lines. Tacked the template lightly in place with a few small squares of tape. Then rechecked again with squares and straight edges to make sure the template baseline and centerline was where it needed to be then taped it down firmly after a couple of minor tweaks. Now I take a knife and cut a notch in the template so that it can be folded down over the blade guard post and laid flat on the back of the saw. Before center punching for the holes, I hold the frame unit up over the template and line up the holes to see if anything looks out of place. My first thought was that the part was designed for a right-tilt saw, as the notch for clearance of the blade guard post sits farthur to the right than it looks like it needs to. It looks tight, but seems like the post should just clear, so I go ahead and center punch the holes through the template.
Seems like HTC could have made this much simpler with a better template. Something less flimsy like maybe mylar? And with large diam hole locations drawn on the template for blade guard posts of various saws so that you could cut out the hole and slip the template over the post?

3) Drilled through the template at the center punched locations just enough to get a dimple into the sheet metal. This allowed me to visually check that I was staying centered in the template hole diam. Once I had a starter hole I removed the template and finished drilling the holes.

4) Attached the frame unit to the saw cab and immediately notice that more of the unit appears to protude past the guard post slot than was apparent by just holding it up to the template. So I run the blade tilt through the motions and YUP - you guessed it - Interference. I double check my measurements again and I do have the baseline and centerline laid out correctly.
I call HTC back. Once again, I got through with no waiting. They're surprised at my problem and say I could have located it slightly off center without any problems. Confirmed with them that they don't have separate models for right vs left tilt saws. Well I don't want to put any more holes in the cabinet so I ask about hacksawing off the offending portion and will that void any warrantee? Nope - go ahead and cut. I volunteered to email a digital pic to them so they can see the problem, which they were interested in. So I reach through the cab with a scratch awl and mark throught the guard post slot on the back of the frame unit. I unbolt everything then start hacksawing. WAY too slow, so I go searching for my Dremel. After using a cutoff wheel then cleaning up with a file I think I'm back in business.

5) Re-attach the unit to the saw and proceed to the next instructions.

6) I get to a point where I have to install cam-bolts and they won't fit. Powder coat on the frame unit needs to be removed. So I take a tapered reamer to the holes to get enough powder coat out that the bolts will go it.

7) Next step is to attach the roller table to the frame unit with the pivot bolts. One side goes in with no problem. On the other side there seems to be a powder-coat buildup problem again. The pivot bolts thread through the cams into the framing of the roller table. The cams attach to the frame unit on the back of the saw and the hole on the cams for the pivot bolts put the hex head of the pivot bolts real close to rounded corner of the frame unit near where the cams attach to it. With no powder-coat buildup, you can just thread and turn the pivot bolts in without any problem. It's close, but there's just enough room. On the bad side, I didn't really want to remove the cams and file or scrape off powder coat from the frame so I put an open-end wrench on the pivot bolt and turned it enough times to let the points on the hex head scrape of enough powdercoat to let it start turning freely. (Ended up taking the pic of that area when I was forced to take the roller table off later).

8) Instructions make references to needing to install all the rollers. This is apparently from an earlier packaged version. Mine has all but two of the rollers already installed in the table. The other two needed to be shipped removed so you can get the pivot bolts installed through the cams and into the roller table frame. The two loose rollers (as well as all the other pre-installed ones) have a fixed shaft and a spring loaded shaft. You insert the fixed shaft in the hole on one end and push in on the spring loaded shaft, slip it into position, and let the shaft spring out into the opposite end hole. Both loose rollers go in easily.

9) Next step is to put a straight edge on the table saw and adjust the up/down location of the frame unit so that the rollers are in line with the top. CRAP. It's real apparent that I'm going to have to slide the frame unit up almost a 1/4". That's not a problem as the slots for the bolts are about an inch or 1-1/4. Plenty of room for adjustment. But now the frame unit is once again going to project into the travel of the blade guard post during blade tilts. I didn't remove enough metal the first time!! I SHOULD have forseen this and pushed the frame unit to the limit of upward adjustment before I marked and cut the first time. I also realize that to remove the roller table unit I'll have to take the two rollers out that I installed. Except there's no way to depress the spring loaded shaft without removing the center pre-installed roller first. At this point I'm frustrated/annoyed and had enough for one day.

10) Next morning. Remove center roller, then the two originally loose rollers. Remove the pivot bolts then slip the roller table off and set it aside. Slide the frame unit up and remark the interference from the inside of the cabinet through the guardpost travel slot. Unbolt the frame unit once again and re-Dremel and re-file off more metal.

11) Re-install everything back to the point where I need to align the rollers to the table top.

12) Leveling and aligning the plane of the roller table and drilling thru the cab for the lower mounting bolts and installing them all go well.

13) Double check roller table and alignment and everything's good. Final tightening of all the nuts and bolts. I think I'm done.

14) Take a few more pics. Then I go to flip the table down and it hangs up. On closer inspection I decide that I put the table support arm on incorrectly. One side of it is longer than the other and I figure I need to flip it end-for-end. Now I've got the willies - thinking that the leveling/alignment will probably be out of whack. But I recheck after flipping it and everything's OK. I go to flip the table down again and it STILL won't go. Peeved - I go back and check the instructions again as they relate to the arm. I had it installed correctly the first time. Trying to figure out why it's binding, I finally realize - ITS POWDERCOAT AGAIN!! There's just enough of it where the top of the arm pivots through it's mounting location that it won't let the arm pivot all the way through it's motion. So I grab hold of the arm and pivot it back and forth enough times that the end of the arm scrapes away enough powdercoat that it can pivot all the way. Re-tighten up the pivot bolts for the arm.

15) I'm finally done. All told, I figure it took around 6-7 hours.

[Doug Shepard]

More pics of Install

[Doug Shepard]

Last pic of Install

[Corey Hallagan]

Well, it didn't come easy it appears but sure looks great and will be a very useful mod, no doubt! Good job Doug!

Corey

[Doug Shepard]

Well, it didn't come easy it appears but sure looks great and will be a very useful mod, no doubt! Good job Doug!

Corey

Yeah - the end result is fine. Just thought the whole thing should have gone way easier. Sorry for the length on the post. I was starting to get a bit miffed so I documented all the hassles I ran into - more to let HTC know where they could do better than for crying to folks here. Instead of just emailing them the pics of the areas with problems, I sent them a short note with a link to the whole writeup. Don't know if it will help future buyers, but maybe HTC will look into the issues. Who knows...

[mike lucas]

It`s good to see that they have not payed much attentition to buyers over the years. As I know I can not be the only one that called and complained about having to cut out for the blade guard. And that was 12-15 years ago. As for color, mine is a medium carcoal color, looks like they sent you one for the Jet line of cabinet saws.

[Doug Shepard]

It`s good to see that they have not payed much attentition to buyers over the years. As I know I can not be the only one that called and complained about having to cut out for the blade guard. And that was 12-15 years ago. As for color, mine is a medium carcoal color, looks like they sent you one for the Jet line of cabinet saws.

Now I'm even more peeved. You told them about the same problem 12-15 yrs ago and they still haven't fixed it?? I think this deserves a serious not-to-happy review from me on Amazon. Maybe that will get their attention. I was going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they acted surprised - like this was the first time they'd heard of it.

Your Jet comment is also interesting. When I mentioned to them that another person (Ted) on this forum had the same model, yet his was black, their reply was that he must have gotten one of the ones that they had manufactured for Jet and that white was the standard color. Weird.