View Poll Results: Which combo Euro J/P and Bandsaw to get

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hammer A3-31 with Hammer N4400 Bandsaw (12.6" resaw, 4hp)

    15 36.59%
  • MiniMax FS-30 Smart with MM-16 Bandsaw

    9 21.95%
  • Hammer A3-31 with MM-16 Bandsaw (who cares about combined shipping)

    7 17.07%
  • Hammer A3-31 w/ other bandsaw (Laguna, Agazzaggi, etc)

    7 17.07%
  • MiniMax FS-30 with other Bandsaw (MM-20, Agazaggi, etc)

    3 7.32%
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Thread: Advise on choosing a J/P combo - Hammer A3-31 or a MiniMax FS30 Smart

  1. #16
    Charles, I too live not too far from the east coast office of Felder and primarily work with hand tools. I few months back I expanded my shop down in my basement and picked up the A3-31. It is a fantastic, rock solid machine and I could not be happier. The change over takes approx. 60-90 seconds and simply could not be easier. Like most of the people above, I too have the straight knives and they give me a beautiful cut. Once you get the A3-31 set up correctly it is almost impossible to knock it out of alignment. As one of their technical staff said, I could take the machine and lie it on its side and it would still hold its alignment. Lifting the tables is done one at a time and is incredibly easy as is lowering them. I had initially decided to get the Byrd cutters but was talked out of them. Pretty amazing given the extra cost for them to tell me to save my money and they were correct at least in my case. Finally the service is excellent and you will never regret this machine. Fred

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    north, OR
    Posts
    1,160
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles B Thomas View Post
    I'm curious what you think of their outfeed accs tables. I'm considering ordering 2 of the 400 (15") and rails for both A3-31 and BS. In my gut I also think they probably aren't needed for most all jointing and seem to be a nicity for thicknessing outfeed of short peices and cool they work on the BS too. The word on the net is the digital readout for the thicknesser is a "Have to have" and not really an "optional accessory" - I'm getting the metric version - $70 cheaper and Festool has already converted my thinking to metric.
    I have one of the accessory extension tables on the outfeed of the planer, very worth it there imho as the outfeed table is just a bit short and it helps hold the piece up while you get around the machine. If you mostly do 4' or shorter pieces, it would be fine without, if you do longer worth it.

    I bought an extra rail with the idea that I can move it up to the infeed of the planer if need be, but mostly haven't bothered. Getting the rails aligned is a little fussy but once they are you can take on/off the extension itself pretty easily. The rails are pretty cheap in relative terms so that may be an option as well (granted its yet-another thing to move around.. but mostly you don't..).

  3. #18
    Now that I am ready to plunk my money down I'm not so sure the Byrd head is for me. I don't stand at the planer/thicknesser for hours on end; I run some, but not lots, of figured woods. I'm highly adept at hand-planing so cleaning up is SOP and don't expect a machine to do what my Japanese hand planes can.
    If I understand all the ups and downs, if you don't mind the noise, sharp colbalt (or HSS?) straight knives from Hammer give an overall better surface than Shelix cutters (at least for the first couple hundred feet). And if got the switchover details right, the hammer 3 knife system is 9 allen screws and 3 flips, but a bryd is 24screws and 24 flips which probably doesn't matter either way (the difference is 1/2 to 2/3s of a coffee break).

  4. #19
    There are "rumors" online of vibration issues because the Hammer bandsaw spine used a thinner gauge sheet metal to save on costs compared to say the Felder bandsaw.

    The Felder Bandsaw is a whole new ball of wax though and I would look at the Felder bandsaws. I voted for the minimax bandsaw myself because the wheel is solid cast iron and seemed the beefiest in its class. The Laguna Bandsaw is what I have and it's not too shabby either. It's really up to you as far as shipped costs and features.

    Getting the new A3-31 is a no brainer for me... it would depend if my budget allowed the digital readout wheel and byrd head.

    Even Grizzly has some decent bandsaws for the price, I wouldn't be ashamed to have a nice industrial grizzly bandsaw sitting next to an A3-31.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
    Posts
    9,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles B Thomas View Post
    Thanks Chris, I appreciate giving a little background, knowing your point-of-view helps me to understand your advise. I too do (did) a *lot* of handwork, the only thing heavier than my #7 is a Stanly 608 Bedrock. At the beginning I started with a scrub plane and worked down through a set of bench planes. At 45 my woodwork has changed; I handle sheet goods with a Festool saw and track, recently cut the TS rails down to a smidge under 27 (from 36) just to make it all fit into 1/2 of the garage. I make a lot less ply-cabinets and more solid furniture. A pinched neck nerve and a year of recovery has taught me I can't do all the milling by hand. Now that I've heard what the community has to say and slept on it, I think I'm ready to order some new machines.

    I'm curious what you think of their outfeed accs tables. I'm considering ordering 2 of the 400 (15") and rails for both A3-31 and BS. In my gut I also think they probably aren't needed for most all jointing and seem to be a nicity for thicknessing outfeed of short peices and cool they work on the BS too. The word on the net is the digital readout for the thicknesser is a "Have to have" and not really an "optional accessory" - I'm getting the metric version - $70 cheaper and Festool has already converted my thinking to metric.

    Considering you were thinking about the Byrd and also the accessory tables, do this get a quote on the A3-41, the tables on the jointer are longer so it is less likely that you will need them. Bottom line the A3-41 will be cheaper than the A3-31 with a Byrd head and tables/mounts.

    Just a comment on your time to change evaluation, though the Byrd will take longer to change to new blades it will have to be done MUCH less frequently, this will save time over the long run. In the end it is insignificant for a hobbyist but adds to the cost savings for a professional.

    Since it seems you may want to stay with all one manufacturer and are leaning to Felder you might see what you could get the Felder FB 600 for it isn't "on sale" now but Felder does negotiate.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern Neck Virginia
    Posts
    602
    i voted for the a3-31 and other bandsaw. haven't had the chance to see the n4400 in person yet (will this weekend). felder is going to be at the fredricksburgh, va woodworking show this weekend. they wouldn't have power to turn on the anything. i got the felder fb 600 bandsaw. the fb 600 has cast iron wheels, but maybe a bit larger than your looking for. for my price range at the time it came down to the agazzani or felder. for me felder won out because they're only 150 miles or so me. i don't think you'll go wrong with any of the bandsaw's you've listed. you may possible get a better deal when buying two machines at once.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Calvert County, MD
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles B Thomas View Post
    I'm curious what you think of their outfeed accs tables. I'm considering ordering 2 of the 400 (15") and rails for both A3-31 and BS. In my gut I also think they probably aren't needed for most all jointing and seem to be a nicity for thicknessing outfeed of short peices and cool they work on the BS too. The word on the net is the digital readout for the thicknesser is a "Have to have" and not really an "optional accessory" - I'm getting the metric version - $70 cheaper and Festool has already converted my thinking to metric.
    Charles,
    Last fall I purchased an A3-31 and an N4400 with this exact setup. I feel it is perfect for my use, and I have absolutely no regrets. The tables provide you with all sorts of flexibility. I typicially leave both of them mounted to the outfeed of the planer table, and only move them to the jointer table or bandsaw table as needed. With just the extension tables I am able to joint/plane/cut probably 99% of what I need to do, without dealing with some tipsy portable roller feed stand. The digital readout is a must have if you want to be able to very quickly move the planer table to an exact setting. I was a little hesitant when I purchased it, but I am so glad that I did. I just processed about 100bf of white oak for my sirst project with my new machines, and the only problem I had was keeping up with emptying the bin on my dust collector. The A3-31 with the stock head made short work of jointing and planing from 4/4 to 3/4, and the motor only slightly showed any sign of strain when I fed a 11" piece through the planer at essentially it's maximum cut depth (i.e. way more of a cut than I had planned to). Even then it chugged right through the entire 6' board and left a flawless finish. I'm still running the stock knives, and thus far I'm glad I didn't spend the extra $$ on the Byrd. In my mind noise is not a concern when running a big tool like this. I'm wearing the hearing protection either way, and I am not standing in front of this machine 8hrs/day.

    Like several of the other posters here, I fealt the N4400 was perfect for my real world needs. I lusted after a MM16 for awhile, but once I truly evaluated my real world uses I didn't feel the significant additional investment was worth it for me. Thus far I am 100% happy with the N4400. It passes the "nickel test" with flying colors, has ample power, and ample capacity in a fairly compact package.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Lake Hopatcong
    Posts
    37
    I have owned the A3-31 for close to 1.5 years and agree with the comments above. The machine is quite solid and easy to use. It is also quite powerful and impossible to bog down and the has quite a few features.

    Also considering I have a Rikon now - I voted for the Hammer bandsaw, obviously because it is quite a step up from the Rikon but also because I have looked at it closely quite a few times and seems to be very robust machine.

  9. #24
    Hi Charles,

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles B Thomas View Post
    A pinched neck nerve and a year of recovery has taught me I can't do all the milling by hand.
    Sounds like we have a lot more in common than just woodworking! Four spinal surgeries later...I am still at it! I hope you don't have any more trouble with your back! If you do, I have a great surgeon to recommend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles B Thomas View Post
    I'm curious what you think of their outfeed accs tables. I'm considering ordering 2 of the 400 (15") and rails for both A3-31 and BS. In my gut I also think they probably aren't needed for most all jointing and seem to be a nicity for thicknessing outfeed of short peices and cool they work on the BS too. The word on the net is the digital readout for the thicknesser is a "Have to have" and not really an "optional accessory" - I'm getting the metric version - $70 cheaper and Festool has already converted my thinking to metric.
    First, I have neither the outfeed tables nor the digital readout. I am not a professional and, as I said, I work with hand tools a lot, so I find the tape on the machine to be sufficient for me. Would I like the digital readout - yes! Maybe I am just too cheap. I would also like the outfeed tables, but I really cannot comment. I suspect they would be very helpful but, again, I don't have any experience with them.

    Good luck! Great choice!

    Chris

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Herndon, VA
    Posts
    172
    The only thing I can add is that I am going through the same decision process as you, and I have chosen the Hammer A3-31 and the N4400. I have been researching bandsaws for a while now and the Hammer seems to offer a lot of features for a good price. I have read comments from hundreds of N4400 owners and for the most part they all seem to love the saw. I was between the Hammer and the Agazzani B-18 and the B-18 is 1k more plus $300 to ship. I couldnt justify it. I was able to preorder the demo saw that will be at the Fredericksburg show this weekend (so all you going to the show be gentle with her) for $500 off list so that sealed the deal for me. I believe they are offering $300 off list for the show, so you may want to check in with them.

    I would have bought the demo A3-31 from them this weekend, but someone beat me to it. But it will be in my shop soon hopefully. It too seems to be well liked by all that own it. Good luck with whatever you decide.

  11. #26
    Thanks Chris, I'm 99% there - I would call my order in right now, but I was offered to see a new one this Sat so I'm waiting mainly to make my final accessory decisions. From what's been said on this thread and futher online research I've talked myself out of the Byrd Shellix head.

    I looked at the Hammer bandsaw in '08 (before one or more rounds of redesign), then I didn't think it offered the right value - smaller std motor, lower resaw height, no foot brake (not a bit issue for me). Now that's all changed and maybe a fence re-work plus a couple other things that might be excaping me. Today it's quite a saw for the $. I was telling someone I thought it was value-price, something you do not really say about that brand in general.

  12. I own a Hammer A3-31 JP machine with the Byrd Helix cutter head. The cuts are super, and very less noisy as compared with the 3 bladed version. My model has the two piece infeed/ outfeed tables- have not found this to be difficult to adjust when changing from joiner to planner mode. Hope this will help you in your decision making. Have found the staff at Hammer to be most attentive in any questions relating to my purchase.

  13. What a timely thread.... I'm also primarily hand tools, but looking to purchase the same setup. The A3 31 and n4400 seem like a great setup to grow with. One interesting feature on the n4400 was the ability to run sanding belts (seen here). The part on Felder's site also describes being able to use the jig to cut circles as well. It's a little spendy of an attachment, but it would be nice for sharpening inshaves, drawknives and the like.

    I contacted Hammer for a quote but didn't get any response. Maybe they don't have reps out here in the Midwest?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    LA & SC neither one is Cali
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    9,447
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian LaShomb View Post
    What a timely thread.... I'm also primarily hand tools, but looking to purchase the same setup. The A3 31 and n4400 seem like a great setup to grow with. One interesting feature on the n4400 was the ability to run sanding belts (seen here). The part on Felder's site also describes being able to use the jig to cut circles as well. It's a little spendy of an attachment, but it would be nice for sharpening inshaves, drawknives and the like.

    I contacted Hammer for a quote but didn't get any response. Maybe they don't have reps out here in the Midwest?
    They just have two US offices, in DE and California. Give them a call, that always works much better.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

    Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian LaShomb View Post
    One interesting feature on the n4400 was the ability to run sanding belts (seen here). The part on Felder's site also describes being able to use the jig to cut circles as well. It's a little spendy of an attachment, but it would be nice for sharpening inshaves, drawknives and the like.
    Hey Brian, I asked the sales rep about the sanding attachment and sanding belts; he did not know anything about them - even after I showed him where in the video to see it. After he did some looking it sounds like the sanding attachemnt is not available through Hammer-USA (or on US versions of the 4400); still not sure if he can get sanding belts for the N4400. The circle cutting jig is different from the sanding jig and requires the ext. tables and table mounting rails. I think most of us would make our own jig - their design is kind-a clever.
    I have used sanding belts on a Delta 14" w/ 12" riser; a simple fence can be made for sanding.

    The quote I recently got was 2999.00 for the N4400 ($200 off list) + accessories.

    FYI, to let you know how my thinking has changed, I started this poll/thread heavily in favor of both the Hammer units. Since talking with Eric @ MM, rethinking the need for a Byrd head and re-evaluating I'm now leaning much more toward MM for a J/P. The only think I don't like in the MM is the taller table (33ish vs 35 for FS-30), and how you adjust the fence and euro-guard to flip the tables.
    I always favored the MM-16 (actually a bigger monster than I really need), I think the N4400 would be just fine save a couple fine points - the fence can't be used right of the blade (important to me when the tables are tilted 45) and doesn't have drift adjustment (Hammer suggests one can loosen and shim the rails). Dust extraction is another.
    I think I would be happy with the Hammers, but broaden my looking to include a 5-in-1 combo (CU-300 Smart). Since I am planning on getting a SawStop soon, still only have 1.5hp router-table but do extensive router/ pattern cutting and work in 1 car bay mostly by myself the jump to a big machine makes some sense.
    The space savings I think is worth the switch-over inconvience.

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