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Thread: Integrating web frame in craftsman style cabinet

  1. #1
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    Integrating web frame in craftsman style cabinet

    I'm working up plans for my next project, a Sideboard modeled after Gustav Stickley's #732, and am having some difficulty figuring out how to build in the webframe interior structure.

    The design has four small drawers in the center, flanked by a cupboard on each side. Below this assembly is a single large drawer running the length of the piece.

    The sides will be traditional frame and panel (~1" thick rails & stiles), set into mortises centered in the legs (~2.25" thick square). The back will be shiplapped boards in a rabbit. Front dividers likely dovetailed into the legs from the back.

    I obviously need a webframe to support the drawers, and also to provide the solid sides for the cupboards. Many webframes get placed into dados down the side panels. However, there are no solid side panels to dado in a frame and panel design.

    For the bottom and top frames, I can put a dado in the side rails. However, for the middle frame (runs between the bottom drawer and the upper drawer/cupboard section) I can't figure out how to anchor it to the piece. It seems like putting dados on the inside of the stiles or notching the legs aren't the best ideas structurally. I could float the middle frame between the top and bottom, but need to do so securly so it doesn't sag into the bottom drawer.

    Can anyone point me in the right direction here, either with an example (sketchup drawing or description) or a magazine article that describes how to lay this out?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    I had a similar design challenge with my most recent piece, and I used loose tenons to attach the frame to the sides. Worked great for me.
    Where will you be when you get where you're going? -- Jerry Clower

  3. #3
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    I'm not understanding why the inside side panel of the flanking cabinets can't be built with rails placed in such a way to allow you to dado the drawer frames for both sets of small drawers. No matter that the interior panels don't match the outsides - I think - as long as they appear the same from the front. I might not be visualizing the cabinet correctly, but I have a good image in my head of a Gustav Stickley "sideboard".
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
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  4. #4
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    +1 on loose tenons for "T" intersections.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    I'm not understanding why the inside side panel of the flanking cabinets can't be built with rails placed in such a way to allow you to dado the drawer frames for both sets of small drawers. No matter that the interior panels don't match the outsides - I think - as long as they appear the same from the front. I might not be visualizing the cabinet correctly, but I have a good image in my head of a Gustav Stickley "sideboard".
    Yes, I can dado the interior side panels for the small drawer frames. However, what do those side panels get attached to? I'm imagining an interior structure as follows:

    One horizontal web frame at the bottom, definining the bottom of the long drawer.

    One horizontal web frame in the middle, separating the long drawer from the cabinet/small drawer section. This also defines the bottoms of the cabinets

    One horizontal web frame at the top (with a front rail hidden behind the doors), providing support to keep the top from sagging.

    The vertical interior frames that separate the cabinets & small drawer section can be attached between the top and middle horizontal frames, and all of the horizontal frames for the small drawers will sit in dados on those panels.

    What I can't figure out is how to tie the middle horizontal frame into the whole structure. The top and bottom horizontal frames can be tied into the outside end panel rails, which are thick enough to support a dado and are themselves tied into the legs. However, I can't see how to tie the middle frame into the external structure without compromising it. Perhaps I don't need to - it can float between the top and bottom frames. Or, as Ben suggests, mortise and tenon it into the outside panel stiles.

    Since this frame supports the bottoms of the small flanking cabinets, it will be bearing a considerable amount of weight in the form of expensive dishes (china) stacked in these cabinets. Hence, I don't want to under engineer it.
    Last edited by Chad Bender; 03-06-2012 at 5:57 PM.

  6. #6
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    Pics would definitely help with this.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  7. #7
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    The horizontal above the bottom drawer (which you will see as a 1" +/- rail from the outside when doors and drawers are closed) can be a full depth and width panel (a bottom to the flanking cabinets) with the full width drawer below. This can be set on cleats or blocks glued and perhaps screwed to the interior parts (outside stiles) in such a way as to allow for proper wood movement. If I get the picture...

    Agree with Glenn - sketch or pics ?

    Sam
    Last edited by Sam Murdoch; 03-06-2012 at 6:06 PM. Reason: more clarity
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  8. #8
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    Here are the sketchup plans: one showing the outside, and one with the drawers, top, side hidden to show the interior as I envision it. That middle horizontal web frame will need solid bottoms, I just didn't draw them in. I'd like to avoid using any plywood, so will likely do it as a floating panel with the top side that sits flush with the rails/stiles.

    sidetable 732.jpgsidetable 732_interior.jpg

  9. #9
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    Yes, the solid bottom is what I was suggesting. You could add a support frame underneath to add more stiffness that if you set back a bit could provide a stop for the bottom drawer or at the least be hidden by the bottom drawer. This will be a great project.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    Yes, the solid bottom is what I was suggesting. You could add a support frame underneath to add more stiffness that if you set back a bit could provide a stop for the bottom drawer or at the least be hidden by the bottom drawer. This will be a great project.
    Thanks for the help. Some how the idea of cleats had escaped me. I was so focused on mortising everything in that I just didn't see it...

    I agree, this should be a great project. It's the biggest thing I've ever built, although not much of a stretch beyond my existing skill set - I've done cabinets, just not anything this big. I'm heading up to Irion tomorrow to pick out the cherry.

  11. #11
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    Hope it's a fun project for you
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

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