Questions about building infill plane

[Mike Allen1010]

I'm interested in trying to build an infill plane and am looking for some advice/suggestions. I'm thinking about a single iron level down smoother without any kind of depth adjustment mechanism.

My primary objective is to achieve the final product of the working plane, not so much developing metal working skills (I have no metalworking skills or tools beyond a drill press, grinder and files etc.) and so am looking for the simplest/easiest construction strategy.

I have a couple basic questions, which I'm sure will be incredibly naïve to the experts here in the cave. Beyond answers to these questions any other advice/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

1) Any references, books posted etc. that would be helpful?

2) Is there another way to attach the metal sides to the metal sole besides cutting and peening dovetails? I don't have any welding capability. I was hoping there was some kind of simple process like maybe soldering or just epoxy?

3) What kind of metal would be best for the plane sides and sole, given my interest in something that will be easy to work and still yield a good result; - steel, brass, aluminum? Is this something I can buy from McMaster Carr or another recommended supplier?

4) Do I have to use a hack saw or could it put some kind of a metal cutting blade on my 14 inch Delta bandsaw? If yes, what blade would you recommend?

5) I would like to use a metal "bridge" -- (I thinks that's the right term?), and a threaded screw with knurled knob-that threads through the top of the bridge and wedges the lower edge of the bridge against the blade to hold it in place. Is there any place I could find these components, or do I have to build them from scratch?

Thanks for your time and consideration. As I say, any suggestions/advice are greatly appreciated!

All the best, Mike

[David Weaver]

1) handplane.com has a picture of someone peening dovetails. The key to making a plane successfully is taking your time, doing a good job, sneaking up on close tolerances, and most importantly, understanding what part of the bedding and fitting of the iron to the bed and lever cap will result in a plane that functions well.
2) If you don't have machine tools, dovetails are the best way. Either that or finger jointed type pins with a secondary bevel on both that you pein metal into. They are not as hard as you think, but there is physical work in doing them. I would lean toward dovetails because the finger joints with secondary bevels will create more metal to be moved. You can minimize the work somewhat by using a steel sole, but brass sides (brass is more expensive than steel, though).
3) I have gotten O1 from mcmaster and have been happy with it. If you're a hand tools only kind of person, generally (other than maybe a drill press and a disk sander to square the front face of the infill), then tool steel doesn't pin the files, isn't gummy and is already flat (you only have to remove dovetail stock and problems that you create when lapping it). I'm indifferent about this, but I understand O1 the best, and it's not hard to use if you comb cut. It is harder to pein, but that's more a physical work issue than anything else.
4) if your bandsaw will run slow speed and was designed for metal, you can use a bimetal blade. If it's not, stick with a hacksaw
5) use a lever cap instead of a bridge and wedge and use a parallel iron. That's my advice without getting too stiff into detail that's just a bunch of opinion.

You will need to come up with something somewhere that lets you know where to locate the mouth of the plane, etc, how long the plane should be, how to orient the dovetails.

It will take some time to build a nice plane. Start looking for the infill wood that you're going to use, and don't settle for something junky or soft.

[Leigh Betsch]

If my goal was to have metal infill but not necessary to learn metalworking skills I would buy a Brese kit. It will cost you but you will get a very nice product in the end without the need to learn a whole bunch about metal working. If you really want the fun of the building process then I would embrace the fact that you need to learn about metal working at least on the neander level (files and saws and hammers and peening, but not machining). If this is your first foray into metal work plan to not achieve perfection and plan that it will be a slow process. Don't get me wrong, metal working is my first love, but I'd recommend a Brese kit.

[Halgeir Wold]

There's a video on the net where Ron Brese demonstrates how he builds an infill body, by screwing the sides to the soles, but the sole and sides a squared off on a mill......

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I've been wondering about using U-profile construction steel, and squaring up in the mill. The mouth would require some hand filing, though... any thoughts?

[Matt Owen]

1) I started by looking at the blogs of the people who already make infill planes: Sauer & Steiner, Karl Holtey, etc...

2) Ron Brese uses rivets on his planes. Jameel Abraham did some videos showing how he made one of Ron's planes which might help with this detail. Just look at the Benchcrafted blog -

http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/201...er-monday.html

3) As David said, precision Ground O-1 would be a good first choice.

4) Definitely use a high hacksaw (high tension preferred) unless you can use a bandsaw designed for cutting metal. Wood cutting bandsaws cut way too fast for metal and would cause work hardening on the steel, which would lead to immediately dulling the blade.

5) I agree with David's answer on this one as well.

Good luck and be sure to show pics when you're done.

[David Weaver]

There's a video on the net where Ron Brese demonstrates how he builds an infill body, by screwing the sides to the soles, but the sole and sides a squared off on a mill......

Don't want to hijack this thread, but I've been wondering about using U-profile construction steel, and squaring up in the mill. The mouth would require some hand filing, though... any thoughts?

If you could find some that had nice square edges, and also machine the inside to square, you might be able to do it. I haven't seen a U-channel plane yet that I would be pleased with, though, I think people try to use it as a shortcut and leave the outside and inside rounded, and the product of all of that is a bad fit for the infill, etc.

[David Weaver]

Mike, I would make the same suggestion that Raney did to me when I made my first plane. Get a piece of brass bar stock to sand/file into a lever cap, retain it like (who's the maker from NZ?) retains the lever cap on bevel up planes - look for them to find this.

Make a small straight plane like the brese J smoother, but do dovetails and use 3/16" stock for the bottom and 1/8th for the sides, 2" wide for both, you'll have to do very little metalwork, but it'll give you a functional plane. You'll just need to mark it, cut the dovetails, file them, pein it together and then fit the infill and irons. It is probably a 20 hour venture, and you learn a lot and have a nice small plane to use.

I can give you a lever cap screw if you want to go that route.

You'll make some minor mistakes on teh metal joining, probably, and probably in the neatness of filing the mouth, things you won't want on your first "good" plane. It probably took me somewhere between 50 and 75 hours to make my first "decent" smoother, it's on here somewhere. It is not a cosmetic pearl, but it is a great user. I am glad I don't have the mistakes of the first plane on it, because while it is also a nice user, those mistakes are glaring!!

[Jeff Wittrock]

Hello Mike,

The first time I made a metal body plane, I was looking for pretty much what you are (i.e. few tools, not too time consuming to start with, etc.).

Here are links to a couple of threads where I show two planes I made. The first one is a small smoother, and the second a shoulder plane.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ill&highlight=
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ade&highlight=

I'm not saying this is the best way to go, but if you have a drill press, then riveting the parts together isn't too difficult. Neither of these is any kind of tutorial, but the second one has a little more information since I took more photos along the way.

Is it better to use dovetails or rivets? Everyone will have their opinion, but I suspect mechanically, it will make little difference. Either will do. It really comes down to how you want to work. I've been practicing making dovetails and plan on doing my next plane that way. Not because of any mechanical advantage, but just because they are fun to make.

In any case, whether you decide to cut some dovetails, or drill some holes, I say jump right in .

[David Weaver]

Is it better to use dovetails or rivets? Everyone will have their opinion, but I suspect mechanically, it will make little difference. Either will do. It really comes down to how you want to work. I've been practicing making dovetails and plan on doing my next plane that way. Not because of any mechanical advantage, but just because they are fun to make.

There is something incredibly satisfying about smashing metal together, and then filing/milling/sanding off the excess to reveal a clean metal dovetail. I don't know what it is, but it's the best part of the process, I think.

Lapping, filing curves, and fitting the infill flush with the metal - kind of tedious, and not as satisfying.

[Halgeir Wold]

If you could find some that had nice square edges, and also machine the inside to square, you might be able to do it. I haven't seen a U-channel plane yet that I would be pleased with, though, I think people try to use it as a shortcut and leave the outside and inside rounded, and the product of all of that is a bad fit for the infill, etc.

My intension in this case was to square it off inside and outside, as I have access to a good old manual mill - and lathe....

[David Weaver]

As long as there's enough left after you mill off the sides, i don't see why not. give it a shot.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Post War Norris panel planes were all made of steel channel so the concept isn't a bad one. I don't think that your average post war panel plane works as well as a prewar dovetailed plane but that might be a factor of metal thickness/ fit and finish and the variables are too complicated to specifically blame the channel. So I would say try it. As for building a smoother I don't know of many plans but Work Magazine Vol. 1 No. 4 which we will be republishing on April 18th (free download) has plans for making an iron panel plane - (they didn't call them infills at the time). I haven't actually read the article yet so I don't know how appropriate it is for you but it is worth a shot. There are also plans for a rebate plane but I don't know which issue. See my blog for the link to the Work magazine reprint project.

Joel

[george wilson]

You can get steel rectangular tubing that has thick enough walls to allow it to be milled square on the inside and outside. I have noticed it on the metals section of Ebay with 3/16" thick walls. It may come even thicker,but 3/16" is plenty. You mill some of the round corners off of the sides,and some off the bottom. Should yield sides and sole over 1/8" thick. And,it is steel,not cast,so it won't break if dropped.

If I wanted to go that route,I'd mill the corners square,then bandsaw the profile of the body,then mill the inside corners square. You might could get 2 planes from 1 length of about 20" tubing. Just stagger the "frog area" of the 2 planes,so they aren't directly opposed to each other.

There is no technical reason why such a plane body would not actually be better than a dovetailed one.Its dovetails can't get jarred loose by being dropped. There are,of course aesthetic reasons,but the goal of peening the dovetails is to make them invisible,anyway. Obviously,you'd need a milling machine though. Or be a demon with a belt sander!!

[Joel Moskowitz]

I would not bother milling the inside corners of the channel square. It's easier to round the wood. That's what Norris did. Also it's a little stronger.

[Leigh Betsch]

Or you could go the route that Derek went and just use an old Stanley block plane metal, do some drill press hacking and fit up some infill wood. If I didn't have much machining capabity I think I'd go that route, or just buy a Brese kit.