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Thread: Christmas in March: Molding Planes

  1. #16
    I haven't seen anyone else use the word gloat.

  2. #17
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    Take a class with Matt Bickford, first.

    The handling of these tools is a skill that takes time to develop.
    They'll just keep cutting, until you stop. FYI - an unfenced rabbet plane does the Lion's share of cutting moldings.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    They'll just keep cutting, until you stop
    Ditto that, a lot of work is one or two cuts from being ruined, at least from what I can tell so far. One or two cuts too deep and you're left with ugly gashes.

    One thing I can tell so far is that I wish I had an 8 foot bench instead of a 6 foot bench, so I could cut longer uninterrupted mouldings for casework, and then miter them.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Take a class with Matt Bickford, first.

    The handling of these tools is a skill that takes time to develop.
    They'll just keep cutting, until you stop. FYI - an unfenced rabbet plane does the Lion's share of cutting moldings.
    Jim,

    Thank you for the advice. I have Matt on my list of a few people I want to take classes from but I must save up and try to line up a couple of classes when I travel since it'll cost $800 - $1000 in air fare (+ hotel + car + expenses) from Alaska to get to "lower 48" destinations. One disadvantage of living in the "Cruel Arctic North"!

    In the interim I've been reading his "Big Pink".

    Jim
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    I haven't seen too many H&R sets of that quality, matching, cheaply anyway. You can basically pay the piper or make them yourself.

    I fell into the trap of buying a huge pile of H&Rs thinking I could match them up to each other. Total waste of time. I still have them, they were on the bottom of one of my racks, and a bottle of dykem burst above them on the racks and subsquently fell to the floor, splashing all over them. what a waste that was!

    Now I'm slowly working my way through building a set, and if I didn't like building tools so much, an older set of english planes like these are probably what I would look for. It's nice to not pay dealer price if you can find them in person somewhere, but if you can't, and you aren't buying them from someone who uses the planes, then you never know what you're going to get buying on the cheap.
    I feel very fortunate, David. The profiles are clean, the blades match the profiles very well, the soles are flat, the boxing is solidly intact and pitting is very minor and not on or near the edges.

    To others considering such a purchase I'll share what worked for me. I contacted Patrick, told him of my affiliation with SMC and told him what planes I was looking for and generally what I was expecting from them and asked him to recommend what he had that would be best for me.

    Jim in Alaska
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  6. #21
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    Jim,

    Awesome score and thanks for the advise when looking for a set!

    I'm curious how well the irons match up to the wood profiles on an older set like yours, I could see that being more of an issue for a detailed profile, but for hollows and rounds I wasn't sure if it was as big of a deal.

  7. #22
    It's not a real big deal as long as the width of the iron is similar to the width of the plane.

    On a lot of the old english planes, the iron is proud of the sides of the plane, but you can refit it, because it's just a tiny bit.

    If the iron in the plane is way off from the plane in size or closes the mouth, then it's probably not the original iron.

    It's a bigger deal if the plane is junk, like if stock selection wasn't careful and the dried plane has turned banana laterally.

  8. #23
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    wow! that must have cost you some dough! But you are probably set for life when it comes to rabbets.
    The means by which an end is reached must exemplify the value of the end itself.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    I haven't seen anyone else use the word gloat.
    1984 speak is what we're into now, is it? This thread was initially titled with the "gloat" word, and was changed after I noted that I didn't see any gloat reasons.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Curtis View Post
    I noted that I didn't see any gloat reasons.
    And again proving that the internet brings out the best in everyone.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Coen View Post
    And again proving that the internet brings out the best in everyone.
    Yeah, not. But you know, I have to admit that the word "gloat" encompasses everything I was raised to avoid at all costs. It wasn't considered gentlemanly to gloat about anything, bad sportsmanship and all that. And I know that our language is so full of hyperbole these days, that many don't consider any of these words seriously; but I still do. Alas.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Curtis View Post
    Yeah, not. But you know, I have to admit that the word "gloat" encompasses everything I was raised to avoid at all costs. It wasn't considered gentlemanly to gloat about anything, bad sportsmanship and all that. And I know that our language is so full of hyperbole these days, that many don't consider any of these words seriously; but I still do. Alas.
    The key is "gloat" is a colloquialism or term of art on SMC with absolutely no perjorative meaning attached. To treat it with the standard connotation is being less than fair to the user of the word. Generally, it is expected that the "gloat" be a deal, but that doesn't always mean a monetary steal, it can be the condition and/or rarity of the item. In general I figure if someone is really excited about an item there are more than free to "gloat". The better deal they get, the more enthusiastic I will be telling them how much "they suck". But, I mean that in the best possible way, when I do.
    Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.

    Deep thought for the day:

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  13. #28
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    I understand, Van, that smc is as hyperbole laden as the rest of the society. We simply cannot get in the habit of abusing words of standard English when said words are so heavy with age old bad connotation. Now if you want to steal from technology and misapply, I understand, don't like it, but there you go.

    I'm done now, will not post on this thread again, won't even read it.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Neeley View Post
    I feel very fortunate, David. The profiles are clean, the blades match the profiles very well, the soles are flat, the boxing is solidly intact and pitting is very minor and not on or near the edges.
    Jim - a few tips from a veteran "I hate the router table" person.

    You get more than personal satisfaction from cutting moldings with hand planes. I've never produced a molding on my router table that didn't require sanding. Very, very few of the moldings that I've produced with wooden planes required any sanding at all. And there is little danger of chip-out with handplanes as long as the stock is selected and oriented carefully.

    When examining an H&R (or any molding plane, for that matter), whether the plane will cut nicely sensitively depends on whether the iron can be set so that it slightly projects over the entire profile of the sole. Even a tiny, tiny part that is below the sole when sighted down the plane's length will render a molding plane unusable. And you don't want any part of the iron projecting above the profile more than about 1/64". Any more and while the plane will cut, it will take tremendous effort to push.

    Practice on a piece of easy-to-work wood with well-behaved, straight grain first. Eastern white pine is ideal; poplar is a good substitute, starting out with cherry or walnut (or especially maple) will be frustrating.

    Start with as long a piece of wood as you possibly can. One thing about cutting profiles with molding planes that's quite different than router-produced moldings is that the depth of the molding will invariably differ over the length (with a router, the depth is accurate to a few thousandths over the entire length). On the ends, it takes great skill to achieve a consistent depth over the first and last few inches. So the strategy to overcome both issues is to plan on cutting off the first and last 3" or so of the finished molding, and to cut the finished molding on both 45 degrees of a corner (i.e., one generally can't used intersections like you could if you've a machine produced molding that's absolutely uniform).

    Consider buying DMT's diamond cones (at least the 2 smaller sizes). These tools vastly reduce the amount of time it takes to profile a poorly-matching iron. You can also make use of a small rat-tail file if a lot of metal needs to be hogged off - most antique molding irons aren't so hard that a file won't cut.

  15. #30
    I hope that at some point, we can get over semantics on this forum and not worry about how much someone else paid for something.

    I sure hope that someone shares every nice somewhat unique purchase of tools, whether they bought for $1 or $10,000, because each time someone like Jim puts up a picture of planes like these, it gives me something more to train my eyes on or decide that I don't like and sharpen my thoughts about why that is.

    It certainly gives a good opportunity for a beginner to be warned about buying a cheap set of H&Rs that haven't been used for 50 years, that don't match maker or even size, despite the markings. It is a warning I wish I would've read when I bought 40 planes a small pile of years ago before I had kids and before the wife applied as much scrutiny to what I swing through the door.

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