What you have is a Liberal Dust Collector ... REDISTRIBUTION of FILTH !!!Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton
100%
90-99%
80-89%
70-79%
60-69%
50-59%
40-49%
30-39%
20-29%
0-19% or it will NEVER be enough
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What you have is a Liberal Dust Collector ... REDISTRIBUTION of FILTH !!!
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I have a roll around Delta 50-850 with Penn State 1 micron bags. I plug it into what ever machine I am using. I think it does a good enough, but not a great job. I wish I had the room for a cyclone type system.
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"It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
Andy Rooney
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I have a Grizzly 3HP cyclone that sucks in a good way. I do get some mess around the TS due to trimming edges where the blade isn't completely in the cut. I've gone to mostly Festool powered hand tools which do a great job with their vac. Even my router table and miter saw work well the way I've set them up. Handheld routing (which I try to avoid) is probably the biggest remaining mess-maker.
[OP]
Member
It would seem people are more satisfield with their system than the general timbre of the forum indicates.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Contributor
Van, "satisfied" has NOTHING to do with whether or not your DC collects a lot dust...fines or heavies. It is rather a measure of expectations and needs. Some folks are perfectly happy with a roll around 1 hp unit that reduces their clean up time. Others can have a 5 hp unit that uses 8" pipe that collects 99.9999% of ALL dust and chips made in the shop...and still not be satisfied because of either the .0001% that got away, or because of the noise level of their machine. I think people are satisfied in the sense that they are satisfied "enough".
I drink, therefore I am.
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Several years ago, I had a detached shop built and installed an Oneida DC system and metal ducting. Oneida worked out the system required from a shop drawing with machine lay out that I sent them. Jointer, planer, belt and disc sander, DP, BS, and Uni-saw are hooked up to it. The only open gate is at the machine running at the time. Works wonderfully.
Problems:
-- Uni-saw has the Uni-guard and the dust from the blade is bothersome at times. Need to find a way to keep the Uni-guard -- I like the split basket design -- and have some DC at the blade.
-- SCMS, but I cut with it facing an open door with a large box fan pulling the air outside. Really do not think there is an effective way to control the dust on my Hitachi SCMS -- no room to “box it in” and hook it up to the Oneida system.
Run a JET ambient air cleaner and have it run via a timer after I leave the shop to thoroughly cleanse the air.
All the sanding tools are hooked up to the Fe$tool shop vacuum.
I rated my system as 90% as I see very little -- if any -- dust on the machines or work surfaces when I return to the shop the next day. I am prone to sinus issues and with this system, I can work in the shop w/o a dust mask. The few times I worked with Melamine or MDF, I wore a dust mask.
Last edited by Ray Newman; 03-18-2012 at 2:27 PM.
Contributor
90-99%; Oneida V3000 HEPA, JDS air filter, and a Fein Turbo II vac. in a 550sf shop. My only complaint is that when I use my 25" double drum sander for an hour or so I have to blow down the DC filter. I would have voted 100% if the Oneida had just a little better separation with sanding dust. My shop is always clean, and I do not wear a resperator or mask unless I'm spraying.
[OP]
Member
I agree 100% that was the point of the poll. I was curious how people felt about their system. We all know we can't get 100% of the dust out of our shop air but at some point most people will be completely satisfied with their efforts. That point will be different for every person, some will be happy if they don't have to bring a front end loader to move the chips from behind their planer (see that in small lumber yards sometimes) and some won't be happy until their Dylos reaches some miniscule number. In the end I am not asking how "good" is your system, just how happy you are with it.
My wife can tell you my brain works in funny ways (you might have gotten that impression too, Mike) and often I ask a question that is not what most would expect but it sounds very close to what they expect.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Member
My system is a recently finished DIY Pentz system with a ClearVue 16in CVMax fan, Pentz cyclone in galvanised steel, Donaldson HEPA catridges, 160mm ducting and a VFD powered 4kW 230V 3phase motor which gives the option to run at the design 3,450RPM or as required on our 50Hz power, and by ramping slowly holds the start up current down to about 140% of the nameplate FLC. (my supply is restricted to 62A single phase) The workshop is only about 27x20ft, so it's got lots of grunt. http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones...Max/ondablade/
I voted 90 - 99% because while it's so far done an incredible job on everything it's so far been tried on (mostly a 24in band saw and router table), I'm still finding my way with sorting out set ups. One major positive has been just how much of a positive difference having the extra pressure capability of a large impeller makes even on stuff like the router table where it ostensibly doesn't need so much CFM. I'd really had enough messing around with a 1KW bag mobile filter unit.
The noise isn't problematical in that once it's been running for a few minutes you don't notice it, but silence or something closer to it would be nice. Once the the situation settles a bit, and my finances recover the plan is to head down the flow measurement, noise meter and Dylos route with a view to getting a fact based handle on what's really going down - but like some others of you I'm very sensitive to dust (chronic sinus troubles) and don't need a Dylos to know it's transformed my air quality.
I'm left with a definite sense of owing Bill Pentz, in that despite having some background in the engineering and running of factory HVAC systems I could easily have been taken in by the OTT claims of the makers of mainstream bag filter based DIY/hobby systems. He helped raise my sights to target ACGIH/EC regulated air quality levels. (time will tell precisely how well the system does this)
ian
Member
Guess where I voted?
A lot of thought, some money, some work, but can't get much better. I smile every time I dash to the TS (or any tool) for a quick cut and don't need to even think about opening a blast gate or turning on my DC.
I'll likely make some minor changes, not because I need to, but because I want to.
Member
I selected 60%. I have a Jet 1100 DC with the cartridge collector. Its not the collector, but the CFM drawn from each tool and the dust hoods that are not very effective. I have 4" going to most everything and intend to switch over to 6" at some point in the future. My main problems are the router table, lack of overarm DC at the tablesaw, and collection for circular saw (breaking down sheet goods). I plan to redo the router table and improve it, also to add overarm DC at the TS, and eventually get a Festool track saw system. I have the Festool system for power sanding and it works great, just need time (see my post on the companion poll) to re-arange the ducting. Just added an old Rockwell 6" Jointer to the system. DC on it works very well with 4" duct.
Member
OK I'm not sure if I qualify as my shop is how I make my living, making my investment significantly more than it would be if it were my hobby. I voted anyway at the 80% level as there's always room for improvement.
My main collector is a 7-1/2 hp Torit which I've done significant scientific testing on....I opened up a gate and sucked up a small dogOK just kidding....but my system has more than adequate airflow and can run multiple machines at a time. My dual table saw setup is on an 8" drop that is un-gated as a safety. In addition I can run 2 other 6" gates without a noticeable drop, unless it's the wide belt, which I try to run without any additional gates open. I also added an additional 3rd filter bag to what was spec'd to ensure good flow. I still have work to do though as my newer shaper is only hooked up with a temporary run, and another shaper has no collection at all yet.
In addition I have a small Jet air filter which runs from the time I turn the lights on until I turn them off. I also have 2 bigger JDS units which really move air, so I only turn them on when doing particularly dusty stuff....like emptying the cyclone for instance! I have a separate collector for the RAS, and a little Oneida dust deputy for the hand helds. Only other thing I really need to tackle are the chop saws. I didn't want them on the main system as it would be a bit overkill, so I need to eventually pick up a little 1hp unit I can stuff underneath them at some point.
I do put a lot of faith in air filters as it's very very difficult to catch everything even with a adequately sized dust collector. Edge cuts on a table saw for instance. Certain shapes on the shaper also tend to let a lot of dust get thrown. I'm always trying to improve the dust control as it is a factor for me in that I spend 10 hours a day with it, but I don't think you can ever really get to 100%, and even trying to get close starts to affect being be able to work quickly and efficiently.
good luck,
JeffD
Member
The devil really is in the detail Jeff, as you say. Even with a very good dust system there's scope to spend months on collection arrangements, and still not be able to cover all situation a machine may be used in...
ian
Matt, I am with you, TS trimming edges and handheld router stuff still makes a mess. And my ROS has no dust collection so I just put on a dust mask, turn my Dust Right ambient air cleaner to HIGH, and hook the yellow 2 hp cyclone to my down draft (or side draft when I stand it on edge for the bigger stuff) table and do my best. And I still need to build a hood to switch the 6" belt sander from the shop vac to the DC. BS, MS, lunchbox planer, jointer, router table and TS (except as noted) are all good. So I am at 80-90% for now.
Last edited by Ole Anderson; 03-19-2012 at 9:29 PM.
Member
I answered 80-89%. The system I have works fine, but I have a 14" impeller cyclone and initially I was only getting 300 - 400 CFM. Rather than replace it when I saw I wasn't getting the airflow I wanted I made a pass at eliminating as many bottlenecks as I could. I eliminated the filter and went with direct discharge. I took out as many 90s as I could, made the main header 7" and made the drops 6". The other major step I took was to use oversize valves with the body on the outside of the metal duct, not on the inside as is typical. My airflow is now in the 800-1000 range but I still need to run the ambient air filter to keep from creeping up to 1000-2000 on the Dylos. That said, if I run the ambient filter the particle number holds steady in the 200 - 300 range the entire time I am working. Actually, if I run on high speed, the number will drop to almost zero.
The reason I didn't give a higher ranking is that I have not addressed dust from hand sanding plywood. For solid boards I hand plane, so dust is a non-issue there. The next step is to try some form of drop and hood at my workbench. In the interim I just go outside and wear a respirator, but it is a pain.
Paul
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