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Thread: Rough or smooth edges when edge gluing boards?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HANK METZ View Post
    Scott, I'm saying that if some woodworkers could sport their Forrest on a silver chain around their neck, they would.

    - Beachside Hank

    Sorry, still not getting what that has to do with blade quality. Sounds more to me like blade envy
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  2. #32
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    Scott Vroom said:
    ...Sounds more to me like blade envy

    That's always been pretty much the case, it falls into the realm of 8" dado sets are superior to 6" threads- it's about bragging rights while both can plough a 1/4" deep groove with equal quality.

    - Beachside Hank

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HANK METZ View Post
    Scott Vroom said:
    ...Sounds more to me like blade envy

    That's always been pretty much the case, it falls into the realm of 8" dado sets are superior to 6" threads- it's about bragging rights while both can plough a 1/4" deep groove with equal quality.

    - Beachside Hank
    ROTFLMAO!!! Thanks, Hank, that made my day
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Page View Post
    Also, clamp pressure is necessary of course, but you do not want to clamp the joint too tightly and squeeze out all of the glue. I firmly snug the clamps and leave it to dry.
    I think this was covered a while back in a woodworking technical article. Conclusion was that there is no such thing as over clamping ( and the more tightly clamped joints were stronger even ).

    This is what I have stuck in my brain at least. Maybe Im not remembering right so someone correct me on this

  5. #35
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    I think this fits in with this thread re edge preparation and clamping pressure so here goes-

    What are peoples thoughts on allowing the glue to 'soak in' before clamping?

    It has always seemed to be beneficial to me, especially with porous woods and of course plywood where half the surface is end grain. By the time you get all surfaces coated, the first ones sometimes have soaked up the glue and a second coat is required.

    But if you were doing just 2 short board edges, will the bond benefit from applying the glue and then letting them sit for 3-4 minutes before clamping? It seems to me it would, especially with heavy clamping pressure that could 'squeeze out all the glue'?

    Wouldn't it be possible to apply glue and instantly put it under 150 lbs of pressure and squeeze it all out?

    Me, I've always let it 'soak in' first. Folly?

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Zellers View Post
    Wouldn't it be possible to apply glue and instantly put it under 150 lbs of pressure and squeeze it all out?
    Not from my experience. But give it a try with some scrap. I think you'll find that the bond is quite good.

    In fact, for anyone who thinks you can squeeze out all the glue, give it a try with some scrap. Take some non-oily wood and glue with PVA glue. Put glue on both surfaces and spread evenly along the surfaces. Then clamp it as tight as you can with whatever clamps you have - pipe clamps, Bessey clamps, steel bar clamps, anything. Let it set for a decent amount of time, then take the two boards out and try to break them at the joint. See if the joint or the wood breaks first. Report back to us.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 04-09-2012 at 9:29 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  7. #37
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    I'm gonna look into the Freud glue line rip blade, sounds like it does a good job. I have been using the Freud Diablo 80 tooth blade for 3 years now and its been great. Since we are talking board glue ups do you all alternate the growth rings from board to board?

  8. #38
    Ed I sure hope they are Thats discussed in Woodwoeking 101 Sarcasm aside, it is a very good practice to alternate the growth rings `
    Thanks John
    Don't take life too seriously. No one gets out alive anyway!

  9. #39
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    Even alternating growth rings isn't a hard and fast rule. Structurally, it is hard to argue against, but aesthetics can be a different matter. It is fine (preferable) if you have an unsupported panel that needs to stay approximately flat. For something like a table top, where an apron can be used to hold the top flat, alternating growth rings just makes for an undulating surface rather than a smooth one. Here it is best to plan for the top to become convex on the top (heart up), and hold it securely in the center of the width so that the edges stay tight. For smaller panels, like for cabinet doors, it is fine to glue up for the most pleasing look.
    JR

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HANK METZ View Post
    Although Forrest still makes a good blade, it doesn't have the same cachet as it used to, now it seems to be viewed as "neck jewelry" for woodworkers.
    Now....that choice of words is a bit incendiary, if not downright insulting, and completely unnecessary, IMO.
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  11. #41
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    Every single glueup the edge I do is made with the shaper and straight cutter.

    100% square, never the slightest saw mark and as tight a joint as possible.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. Rutter View Post
    Even alternating growth rings isn't a hard and fast rule. Structurally, it is hard to argue against, but aesthetics can be a different matter. It is fine (preferable) if you have an unsupported panel that needs to stay approximately flat. For something like a table top, where an apron can be used to hold the top flat, alternating growth rings just makes for an undulating surface rather than a smooth one. Here it is best to plan for the top to become convex on the top (heart up), and hold it securely in the center of the width so that the edges stay tight. For smaller panels, like for cabinet doors, it is fine to glue up for the most pleasing look.
    It's not a rule at all with me. I glue up panels according to the best grain arrangement, totally ignoring the growth rings.

    Even if alternating growth rings helped prevent warping (IMHO, it doesn't) I'd rather have a curved panel than one shaped like a washboard.

    If the stock is sufficiently dry for it's environment and the edges are square to each other, no warping should occur anyway. We're talking furniture here, not a PT deck.

    Even Norm eventually advised gluing up panels for appearance and ignoring the growth rings.
    Cody


    Logmaster LM-1 sawmill, 30 hp Kioti tractor w/ FEL, Stihl 290 chainsaw, 300 bf cap. Solar Kiln

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Griffin View Post
    Every single glueup the edge I do is made with the shaper and straight cutter.

    100% square, never the slightest saw mark and as tight a joint as possible.
    How long are the infeed and outfeed sides of your shaper?
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott vroom View Post
    How long are the infeed and outfeed sides of your shaper?
    HI Scott,
    My shaper set up is in this thread:
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...per&highlight=

    Basically a standard 3hp shaper. The index on left and right adds about 4" to table, but that's not that important. A 4 roller feeder negates the need for outfeed table if you catch the board coming out. I've used this set up for 12 or 14'' long boards with no issue.

    Every single board coming out of my shop goes through the shaper. It's faster, safer and makes a far better edge than manually feeding wood on a table saw. Plus I don't need to change my table saw blade to the "extra special blade" for finished edges.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Colston View Post
    Even if alternating growth rings helped prevent warping (IMHO, it doesn't) I'd rather have a curved panel than one shaped like a washboard.
    I've done some wide panels where we had offcuts from the ends sitting around for a while. Because we glue for best appearance, I have definitely seen that with all growth rings oriented the same way, the panel will cup across the width. Does it matter? Not to me. These parts get held in place by rails or some other framework. My point was that if you don't have anything keeping the panel flat (unsupported), then you better plan for cupping if the EMC changes throughout the year.
    JR

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