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Thread: Shaper Help

  1. #1
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    Shaper Help

    About a year ago I purchased a shaper with a power feeder. I finally used it a few weeks ago and all I can say is, WOW this thing is awesome.The shaper is a Grizzly G1026 3hp and the feeder is a 1 hp 4 wheel. I am looking to make interior doors and cabinet doors. I have some raised panel cutters, but for the rails and stiles I need to purchase cutters. I was thinking about a Schmidt knife holder, but I wasn't sure if they make rail and stile insert blades like that. I was just thinking if that works it would be cheaper in the long run with more flexibility. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    They make corregated back insert knife heads in 3/4" bore which is typical of a 3 hp shaper, knives are typically made to order to any pattern you specify. I use them often professionally, they work fine but a given knife makes exactly what it makes, doors with glass are more complicated and IMO much easier with a stacked 6-8 cutter head set. Nice thing about the molding head is the patterns are limitless. HSS knives are very affordable, great for solid wood, if you get into any mdf doors you need carbide, carbide inserts start to rival a cutter set in cost.
    Last edited by Peter Quinn; 05-06-2015 at 12:09 PM.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  3. #3
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    Can you recommend a good website for cutter inserts?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Coogan View Post
    Can you recommend a good website for cutter inserts?
    You may find a few sites with posted catalogues, but mostly it's a made to order sort of thing, not an off the shelf thing. A few sites post pdf's of popular profiles for which they have the templates. Knives are ground by CNc to a lexan pattern which is cut by CNc or laser, sort of works like a key cutter. Templates are cheap, maybe 10-15 dollars each, it's a good idea to get a template with every knife set so you can get them sharpened going forward. Pretty much any good grinding shop can re sharpen if you can provide the original templates.

    For examples of grinding operations check out Oellasawandtool.com, ctsaw.com, and Schmidt's site. Schmidt may have stock knives in their online catalogue, and a price list IIR. Getting insert knives made is still one of those endeavors where it's best IMO to put down your laptop and pick up the telephone....at some point any way, because you will learn a lot more by speaking to a good tech at a tooling place than I've ever found on the net. These people do this for a living, are typically quite good at it, and are worth forming a relationship with. Dave at oella is great, CT saw is great too, there are plenty of others, pretty much every region has a good grinding shop, and ups makes them all available to you. Last time I sent out a set of knives for a bid all three respondents were within a few dollars of each other, which is also pretty typical. Best bet is to find a shop you are comfortable working with, there is more value to the information they can provide than a few bucks one way or the other on a given set of knives IMO.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  5. #5
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    I agree with the previous comments but would also look at brazed sets like Freeborn. When you are starting out you don't need and additional complications to life. You want curtters that are easy to set, and cope and stick sets that can be swapped easily. Insert are very nice but there is more of a learning curve and you need separate heads for cope and stick so the cost is usually more. Dave

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't invest in insert cutters with that shaper. Pick a brazed profile from Freeborn and be done with it. Call Doyle at Freeborn and tell him your wants - he'll provide your most cost efficient needs. If you're just now running a shaper you've had a year... your wants outweigh your needs IMO (no offense intended).

    If you're dead set on inserts, Peter gives good advice.
    -Lud

  7. #7
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    I should note I very much agree with David and Justin's comments regarding brazed heads, or stackable heads anyway, be they braised or inserts. I'm assuming you are probably not buying a $3K stackable insert entry/passage door kit for a Grizzly shaper...but stranger things have happened. If this is just for a few doors for personal consumption, even a single whole house worth, Infinity has some decent profiles in 3/4" bore braised sets, and they cost about half what an equivalent freeborn set does. The freeborn is better tooling, but the infinity sets do a fine job on a small shaper for short money. In fact I have an OG set in 3/4" bore that has been used for a total of one door, I've been meaning to sell it, you can PM me if that is of any interest? I switched to 1 1/4" bore shapers and door sets a few years back and haven't gotten around to selling the 3/4" set. There is a nice post by Sam Layton on door making with the infinity set, check the archives, goes back a few years, he took lots of good pictures of his process. He did shaker profile with raised panels IIR.

    The issue with the corrugated insert heads is you need a lot of power to push them, its a 2 knife head, you are committed to cutting the whole 1 3/8" or 1 3/4" in one pass, its a lot of stress on a small shaper. I ran a number of doors with a 3/4" 3HP delta using the Amana profile pro insert system, they have a decent bead and cove pattern stock, it works but its really at the upper limit of what you can ask from that class of machine before things get chattery and weird. A similar 3 knife braised head with a slight shear angle seems to go much better, not taking quite as big a bite per knife. You could do two passes with any knife you choose, or adjust feed rate within limits. The smallest shaper I'm using at work is 9hp and I have a pile of corrugated heads to work with, so its no issue. I tried to run a corrugated head for doors last summer at work using a 7hp grizzly shaper with a 3/4" spindle, and a 3/4" head......it did not feel good. Head was balanced, spun fine but when the wood hit the knives if felt like the thing was deflecting too much even at minimum feed rate. I wound up doing it all on a bigger shaper.
    "A good miter set up is like yoga pants: it makes everyone's butts look good." Prashun Patel

  8. #8
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    I have a nice insert head for my 5hp shaper with a 1 1/4" spindle and it is great for odd profiles that I don't do very often. But I wouldn't want to cut rails and stiles with an insert head. A conventional set of stacked cutters are just a better more flexible tool for the job.

  9. #9
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    I will look for a stacked set to start out with. Thanks for the input guys!

  10. #10
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    I have a 3/4" bore stack set of MLCS Katana cutters I'd sell ya for cheap. PM me if your interested - I used them to make one set of doors then upgraded to a bigger shaper with a 1-1/4" bore.




    I also have their Ogee panel raiser, back cutter, and glue up cutter. The back cutter and glueup haven't been used. I made my panels true "raised" panels on that project.
    -Lud

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