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Thread: Advice on buying planes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    Advice on buying planes

    Hi all,

    I know I am in "Neanderthal Haven" and I am a "Normite" loving my power tools. But I would like to add a couple of hand planes to my list of tools. I have a small block plane and a "Bench plane" that I bought from the Borg a number of years ago ( I think the brand name is Buck), but I would like to move up some. Lee Nielson's are WAY out of my league, but I would still like to buy some reasonably good planes.

    I have two big problems and one of them is that I don't really know what to get. A better block plane might be a good place to start, but what else? #4, #4 1/2, #5 . . . . Jack, bench, smoother, low-angle . . . my head is already spinning just typing that much and I haven't even asked which brands to look for and which to avoid.

    You may also be wondering what I would be using them for. Well, so do I and that is the second big problem. I have been using my block plane more lately for removing sharp edges on projects, etc. The bench plane I have not used in several years and I think a lot of the reason for that is because it is a crappy plane. At least the iron is crap. I dragged it out just the other day and sharpened it up. I tried planing a sample of Brazillian Cherry and after just about 10 passes the blade was chipped. I have been watching some woodworking shows on tv lately and see where it looks like they would be good for jointing small pieces, flushing dovetail and box joints, etc. If I had a reasonably good plane I could probably find all sorts of other uses too. I will definitely NOT be using planes to joint larger boards, or flatten any sizeable pieces so I don't think I would have much use for . . . say . . . #7's or #8's (Although I do intend to build a nice workbench and it will need to be smoothed and flattened, I can't see spending gobs of money for a plane to use for one job).

    So with that in mind, which two or maybe three should I be looking for, where should I look, and what do I look for, what brands should I look for and which should I avoid? I have started looking at Craigslist and ebay, but I don't really know what I am looking for or at. There are a lot of Stanley/Bailey planes, but from what I have been reading there is a wide range of quality even in those.

    You can probably tell that I am totally lost by the way I have been rambling here. Please help.

    Thanks,

    Wayne

  2. #2
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    I would suggest contacting Walt Q at brasscityrecords and he can set you up with vintage Stanley or similar #4 and low angle block planes. You could get higher end blades for Lee Valley for these and be good to go (or the original blades are OK too). Oh, and get Leonard Lee's or Ron Hock's book on sharpening. Being able to sharpen properly is probably at least as important as what plane you have.

  3. #3
    Start with a smoother. A #4 is fine, but if you are a beginner, I would probably - in your shoes - try to find one that is actually in use rather than a vintage yardsale flip. There are a lot of yardsale flippers who toot about the greatness of a plane they've found, leaving you with a plane that's got a line of pitting between the chipbreaker and iron, and a chipbreaker that cannot be brough back to the condition one needs to be in to actually work on a smoother.

    I don't have anything to fence off to you or I would offer something up cheap. That is where you want to start, though.

    I don't know what iron is in your buck brothers plane, but the couple that I've gotten from HD (the irons themselves) have been quite competent. It may be that the iron is crap in your plane (the plane itself is), and it may be just that it's too shallow of a bevel.

    Start with medium hardwoods. Use your block plane, and understand smoothing wood before you get into dimensioning it. If you find you lose interest in using a plane after you have a good working smoother, then you're done and you don't need to buy the rest of them.

  4. #4
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    My first recommendation is to post where in the world you are located and with a little luck, someone here who has a number of well-performing planes and will invite you to come by and try theirs to give you a feel of what they should be like and what all they can do.

    Beyond that, asking what brand to buy is a kind of a Ford-Chevy-Dodge-Mercedes-Honda issue. In broad-brush strokes, assuming you're looking a metal Stanley/Bailey types, there's four approaches:

    * buy a premium line (Lie-Neilsen, etc.) that requires limited fettling. This is big-money, little time investment that has little risk.
    * buy a vintage plane, likely replacing the stock blade with a premium blade. Lacking someone knowledgeable to guide you through this, it involves reading up on the topic of what to look for. If you purchase from "the auction site that shall not be named here" you may run into a shyster although many here are successful with this approach. Then you will need to invest some number of hours fettling, depending on the condition of the plane.
    * buy a good "tier two" plane new (such as the Wood River V3's) that, while expensive, are far less so than the top-tier planes yet should require little fettling.
    * buy a new budget plane, repeat the steps from the vintage plane above, and still end up with an inferior product. I don't recommend this approach.

    Just my $0.02, YMMV.

    I expect others will extoll the virtues of each of these options, so I'll leave that exercise for them.

    Jim

    Jim
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  5. #5
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    Wayne,

    I am with Jim on suggesting you list your location in your member profile. There are many here who would be happy to let you test drive some of their planes.

    The Buck planes available at the Borgs and other stores are not worthy of being called planes. The blades sold with the Buck name may be from a different source than what is in the planes. I bought one for $3 and it seems fine.

    If you just want to remove saw marks from the edge of boards, then a #4 or #5 Stanley/Bailey should be a good start. Both of them are very common and can be found for small money at yard sales, flea markets and Craigs List all the time. You do have to get there early as many people are out looking for these to resell on ebay.

    My opinion is only that, but in my opinion I wouldn't buy a Stanley/Bailey plane made after WW II. Personally, my preference is for the ones made before the 1930s.

    In the Sticky: Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs section are various posts on many subjects including information about hand planes. It is worth giving a good read.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
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    Disclaimer: I'm not a big hand tool guy.

    One of the things I've heard Marc (the wood whisperer) say is that, since he's primarily a power tool guy, he gets the most use out of specialty planes... they perform operations that machinery can't replicate very effectively and/or efficiently. He said he found that he doesn't use bench planes all that much.

    From memory, he said he frequently uses the following:

    -Block plane
    -Shoulder plane
    -Router plane for evening out the bottoms of grooves and dadoes

    I think a smoother would also be really helpful for removing milling marks.

    Just my $.02

  7. #7
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    Mar 2009
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    I would get a Lee Valley bevel up jack. It is one of the best all around planes you can own. It cost around 230 dollars but the good thing is you can sell it in a matter of hours for almost the same price you paid for it. The price only hurts once and after you use it you will think of it more as a bargin than an expense.

  8. #8
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    You could also haunt your local area(s) CraigsListings. I got lucky and got a pretty good set of older Record planes that were still "new" in box (and oil paper) that had never touched wood.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim R Edwards View Post
    I would get a Lee Valley bevel up jack. It is one of the best all around planes you can own. It cost around 230 dollars but the good thing is you can sell it in a matter of hours for almost the same price you paid for it. The price only hurts once and after you use it you will think of it more as a bargin than an expense.
    Im just going to second this advice. Since you dont have anything specific in mind, a high quality multiuse plane like this will allow you to have a pretty good experience doing a number of things.

    I dont recommend going the rebuild route. Its much cheaper, but its a learning curve and the biggest problem I had was I didnt know what I didnt know. And since new to hand tools/planes - didnt have direct experience on what it 'should' be like.

    Connecting with another member here to try some out and play is the best approach....

  10. #10
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    I'll third this. If I only had one plane, it would be a bevel up jack for sure, and I prefer the Lee Valley one. You can use it for everything except maybe jointing long stock. Eventually buy two extra blades at higher angles, and maybe a toothed blade for gnarly wood and bobs your uncle.
    Paul

  11. #11
    If you are happy flattening and smoothing your work with sandpaper and power tools, then I suggest getting the following 3 planes:

    1) adjustable mouth block plane. The Veritas might be the right one for you. It's on the larger size for block planes. It can be fitted with a knob and tote, so it becomes a small #2 smoother. This will make it very versatile and good for the uses you mentioned below.

    2) A router plane. This allows you to fine tune mortises and tenons pretty easily vs any kind of power tool.

    3) a good set of chisels. I know these are not planes, but I think they will add a lot of versatility to your arsenal of power tools.

    IMHO, the above 3 are great 'tweaking' tools. They make fast work of tasks that would otherwise require a lot of painstaking machine set up.

    I'm assuming you have a good method for sharpening. If not, that'd be #4.

    - p

  12. #12
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    IMO, the first plane you should get is a #5 or #6 Stanley with a Hock blade. Even the stock Stanley blade will do but be prepared to sharpen more often.
    Second plane to get is a jointer. With your experience with the first plane, you should be able to buy a Hock blade and make your own jointer out of some stable maple or purple heart or beech or etc. In fact if you are short on good hardwood scraps, then use some cherry or even pine for the main body, and put a 3/8ths thick sole on it out of purple heart...very cheap with good results. Look to Steve Knight's planes for inspiration for adjustable mouth piece.

    This project shouldn't cost you much money, certainly less than $75 and will serve you well when you build that bench. A Krenov design is very straight forward to build and will last for years and years. Dereck Cohen has a massive jointer that you can look at too. Very well done and extremely low investment, just time, a bit of glue and a good blade.

    Even your Buck Bros plane can be fettled and put to service but it will not do as well as a $20 #4. A Stanley or a Record #4 would complete the set.

    Re your Buck plane: Have you set a 35 degree micro bevel on the blade with a David Charlesworth curved cutting edge sharpening? Also have you made a honing board out of some fine grained hardwood or even some MDF and put some green rouge on it? I'll bet if you do, you'll think that Buck is worth every bit of the $3 it's worth...er... well it'll probably work much better...hoot!

    Above all, enjoy the process. Invest in it and the payback will be pleasant.

  13. #13
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    Wayne,
    I would never consider myself to be an expert on handplanes, but I was a stranger to the world of handplanes just like you not too long ago and do know what I learned and what I like. I now have acquired several vintage Stanley Bailey planes and I am still enjoying the process of restoring them. However, I wouldn't recommend one that has not been restored as your first step into Neander Land. In deference to Jim Koepke's comment: "I wouldn't buy a Stanley/Bailey plane made after WW II", my first planes were the new premium (for Stanley) line of Sweetheart planes. I purchased the #4 Smoothing Plane and the #62 Low Angle Jack and learned to love working wood by hand. You can buy these several places of course, but I know that on Amazon the #4 sells for $109 and the #62 runs $115.50. They are even Amazon Prime eligible so you can get free shipping if you are a member. In my humble opinion, these are very well made planes for the money. They are much heavier than their older, vintage brothers, and include a 1/8" A2 steel blade just like LN and Veritas do. It sounds like you are headed down the same path I traveled and I'd be happy to discuss my journey and my thoughts with you anytime. Below are a photos of some of my planes, including the Sweethearts.


    100_1561.jpg100_1562.jpg100_1563.jpg100_1564.jpg100_1566.jpg

    So drop a PM and we can chat.
    "I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
    Name withheld to protect the guilty

    Stew Hagerty

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Jolly View Post
    Hi all,
    I tried planing a sample of Brazillian Cherry and after just about 10 passes the blade was chipped.
    By the way... Brazilian Cherry or Jatoba is freakin hard. I made a fair sized project out of it and had to flip over the planer blades in my DW735 half way through. Granted, they weren't fresh new blades when I started, but the were sharp enough that they cut species such as oak just fine.

    Just an FYI. You might want to start out with something much softer like poplar or butternut.
    "I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
    Name withheld to protect the guilty

    Stew Hagerty

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oakley, CA
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    Thanks for all the advice. After reading all of it I had to re-read what I wrote. I guess I was concentrated on the #4 style Stanley planes and didn't mention that a shoulder plane and a router plane were two that I was definitely interested in.

    So for now, the hunt is on for a Stanley #4 or #5 or similar, a shoulder plane, and a router plane. I am "watch"ing a few on that (ugh) auction site just to see what they finally sell for. I am watching a couple of #7's and a #8 too just for ducks. I am also watching craigslist but not finding much in my area which is Northern California, East Contra Costa County, city of Oakley. For those not familiar with California, leave San Francisco and go east about 60-65 miles. Depending on day-of-week and time of day that could be anywhere from a 1.5 hour drive to about 5 hours.

    I do have a decent set of chisels. Not the greatest perhaps but decent. Marples to be exact. For sharpening I have a 12" diamond stone which is a 750 grit equivalent, and two water stones. I'm not sure what the grits are but I would guess 1000 and 4000. I got the water stones with a PM66 table saw I bought. One of them came in a box but all of the writing was in Japanese so, of course, I don't have any idea what it says. Problem is, I have misplaced it and the nagura stone. CRAP!

    One more question if I may. A couple of you have mentioned replacing the blades. Is there a "standard" size or type? By that I mean do all #4 sized planes use the same blade? Or are you good to go as long as you get the right width blade?

    Lastly, a couple of you mentioned the Lee Valley bevel-up Jack plane. Is this it?:
    http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...82,41186,49708

    Thanks again,

    Wayne

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