Siding/insulation options for barn

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I'd like opinions on what to do about the walls on my old barn. I know many of you have built nice shop buildings.

Here are some requirements:

1. It is an 1849 stone and frame bank barn, burned during the civil war, rebuilt with federal money after the war (the owners were quakers, and neutral). It is kind of a landmark around here, and I want to retain the old-barn look.

2. It is currently sided with random width pine boards- large gaps between planks, and many are in need of replacement (rotting, warped like a ski-jump). Many, many pidegon and squirrel holes. Pidgeons roost in there and decorate everything.

3. Overall size is about 62' x 32'. About 38' of that is the original barn. The rest is a newer barn that was added on (same height and width).

4. It has large sliding doors on both sides on the original section. I want to keep these, as they are really handy for moving big stuff in and out, but they would not be able to seal well, if I try to heat it.

My goal is to:
1. At the very least, cover the gaps to keep snow, rain, wind, squirrels, pidgeons out.

2. If possible, retain a vertical siding look (perhaps board and batten). Horizontal siding may not be so bad, as long as it looked "old".

3. Create one room upstairs (at least) that is insulated and heated. My thinking is to build a 2nd story over the newer section, and seriously insulate this. I plan to put in some windows as well.

4. The rest of the upstairs will be lumber and project storage and will probably house the big sliding table saw and outfeed table, and maybe the other table saw as well. The other machines would go in the heated area.

5. If not insanely expensive, I'd like to put some sort of vapor barrier and insulation over the entire wall area- even if it was just tyvek and 1/2" foam panels.

6. When choosing siding, I'd love to use hardiplank. I will not use vinyl or aluminum. Wood siding would be ok, but I don't want to be replacing it for the next, oh, 50 years...

To see a pic, go to this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=18353

As mentioned in this earlier post, I'm currently fixing up the frame underneath. The newer section is to the left and has the single window. You can see the roofline disturbance where the 2 barns meet.

[lou sansone]

hi lynn


that is a tough one! I know that you have seen parts of my post and beam shop and how I was able to maintain the look of the post and beam and still insulate it. The roof line sort of prevents you from growing the outside with another skin of ridged foam insulaton and then more barn siding. If you try to insulate the inside you are going to loose the barn look inside.

I am a little confused on what you mean by upstairs and downstairs? I see what looks like a lot of "cribbing" under the main floor. Is the main floor sound? That is going to have the strongest floor, and you will need that for all the machinery you intend to put inside it. I assume it has hay lofts on either side of the side doors. Were you planning on putting your equipement way up there? What about using the "ground floor" and insulating the inside of that and putting all of your equipement "down on the ground"? some food for thought.

lou

[Brad Smith]

I know of someone who had spray foam insulation put on the outside and then board and batten over that. Absolutely still looked like a barn but the spray foam has super insulation/vapor barrier/air infiltration blocking properties. He uses it as a retail shop. I'm sure it wasn't cheap, though.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

I'll be pouring a slab downstairs. While I am at it, I'll probably lay in radiant heat tubing and insulate the slab. Not very expensive, and is wonderful heat from what I hear. Yes, I could set up wood shop there, but I plan to put my metalworking stuff there- metal lathe, vertical mill, welders, band saw, etc. This will also be a place for doing vehicle maintenance and restoration of tractors (1940 and 1947 John Deere Bs are waiting patiently for restoration).

I am overbuilding the beams and bracing so the upstairs will support the weight of my machines. I have had several barn experts out to evaluate and all agree that the barn was built to hold a lot more weight than I plan on putting in there. A neighbor said that in the 1970's the owner used to park his combine in there (probably 4 tons or so). And the barn was designed to be stacked to the rafters with hay- which is a whole lotta weight.

So, as much as I'd like to have my woodshop on a slab, it is going to have to be upstairs.

This url has a bunch of shots of the barn:
http://www.lkasdorf.com/houses/john_wolford/barn.htm

There is LOTS of room upstairs, and when I build a loft or 2, I'll have a bunch more.

It is just a question of how can I redo the siding without going broke. Retaining the barn look on the inside is not crucial actually. Whatever I do, I figure I'll cover the interior walls with rough sawn boards of whatever variety I can get cheaply. So, it will have a nice wooden look (I HATE drywall!).

I have considered:
1. Replace the worst of the siding boards. Cover the gaps with battens. On the inside, lay in tarpaper against the siding, then fiberglass batting and/or pink board. Then my interior planks.

2. Replace the worst of the siding boards. Cover with tarpaper or tyvek. Install new siding (hardiplank) overtop the existing barn boards. On the inside, fiberglass batting and planks for the walls.

Option 1 would be easiest/cheapest, and would retain the old barn look from the outside. But, it would require ongoing maintenance. Also, it seems like it would still allow water to get behind the siding and sit there.

Regarding the look of the interior, in either case, I would probably install 2x4 nailers along the sides of the beams to nail the planks to, and leave the face of the beams exposed. The batting and interior planks would end up flush with the face of the beams.

My brother the builder thinks I should just put up a new building. But this one is pretty sound, and will be very sound by the summer. It is just a matter of what to do about the wall treatment.

[lou sansone]

hi lynn

here are some of my humble thoughts.


Siding is going to be expensive. Figure saw logs @ 250/mbdft .. you probalby have 8000 bd feet just in siding ( 2 grand in logs and 6 grand in the mill, but the mill is yours now). So buy a norwood ( good manual bandmill - check them out norwood .com) and start sawing. Your barn looks very similar to the one right next to me. The owner completely retimbered it and resided it with board and batten. Still not insulated though. Unless you really have a lot of $$ you are going to go broke trying to heat the entire barn.

Maybe you could strip off the current siding and save it for the inside. Reside the outside and insulate one part of the barn's walls and then partition off one secton of the inside first floor. I would use the loft for storage only.

I love the bank barn concept and the stone end!! looks great now and it is really going to look good when it is done. BTW, check out the "agway" barn red paint when you get ready to paint... mainly iron oxide and wears like iron... good color too.

[Lynn Kasdorf]

If I wanted to cut my own siding, I do have a sawmill- but it needs a bit of work to get it online. It is a Mobile Dimension circular mill- has a vertical 32" blade and 2 horizontal 16" edger blades. So, it cuts 3 sides in one pass.

Alas, the entire machine was underwater a couple years ago when the previous farm flooded. So, I need to tear the engine (a VW) down before attempting to start it.

However, if I could get a bunch of free trees, it would be an option to cut my own siding. I only have so much time though, and want to spend it getting the shop set up.

I don't figure I would ever heat the entire barn, but I do want to fix the siding on the entire barn to eliminate the gaps and holes, and provide a vapor barrier. At least to start, I'd just insulate the room I plan to make up stairs.

[lou sansone]

hi lynn

well then you probably could get a decent deal for a tractor load of siding ( I think that you are still looking at 400/mbdft delivered, but maybe in your neck of the woods you might get a little lower. You probably want to at least air dry it before putting it up. I think that even then, unless you ship lap it, you will get gaps once the stuff is fully dried. My exterior siding was kilned and I still have a few gaps where the sun beats down. if you board and batten it then you are home free. It is just a lot more work, and not as nice looking IMHO ( my wood shed is done that way but I chose that to contrast with the main bldg )

lou