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Thread: Should I jump on this CV1400?

  1. #1

    Should I jump on this CV1400?

    This ad was first posted on Craigslist March 27. I thought it would be gone by now but I emailed him a few questions last night - see reply below. Any other questions I should ask if I give him a call before driving five hours? I'm thinking of making an offer that includes the extras although I had intended on going PVC for financial reasons so that would commit me to finishing it with spiral. I've been thinking of getting the 1800 for a while now. Any suggestions on what to offer for the whole shebang?

    I guess a more important question is if I should settle for this rather than the 1800 (or, say, a 3hp Oneida unit.) We have a small shop where my wife and I produce mostly boxes (hamiltonroberts.com) and we very often are running two machines - say a 6x48 belt sander and trying (mostly unsuccessfully!) to collect dust at a "sanding box". Or using the TS and jointer or...well you get the idea. Constantly jumping on and off all the machines although we are trying to limit it to running one at a time. We currently have an old first generation Grizzly single-stage with felt bags that SEEMED to do a decent job but after getting into to all this DC stuff here (and Pentz of course) I now know that we've been breathing WAY too much dust the last 30 years. It probably runs 4-8 hours a day. Ultimately will be replacing 4" PVC with 6" and try to run 6" to each machine. Longest reach is about 25'-30'. We have an air cleaner, 3M 7500 respirators and a new Dust Deputy on shopvac (slick!). Hope I'm not asking too much for one post. Thanks in advance!

    ========= Ad =============
    Downsizing my wood shop and have no room now for this super dust collector. My loss is your gain!

    ClearVue Cyclone Dust Collector:
    5hp (220v, single phase) ClearVue Cyclone 14" system including motor, mount, two filters, clean-out box, slick cyclone-tub joint and plastic gates. All you need is the collecting tub w/top!

    The ClearVue cyclone w/filters is normally priced new with shipping at just over $1600 with buyer building the mounts and clean-out box. Plastic gates are extra. Asking $1100 complete w/filters, mount, clean-out box, cyclone-tub joint and plastic gates.

    Commercial grade steel ducting (including elbows) and flex-hose is also available (both 5" and 6"). Some 6" metal ducting/gate is not shown. Price on ducting is negotiable depending on what you need to complete your dust collection system.
    --------- Reply to my email ---------
    This ClearVue is one of the originals. I believe it's now called a 1400. It has a 14" impeller and does have the 5 hp Leeson motor. The 1800 has a 15" impeller. Unless you are running several machines simultaneously, the 14" will do fine.

    Also available:
    12' of spiral 6" ducting that includes a metal gate.
    4-90 degree elbows and one 45 degree
    2 6" wyes (One of these is thinner pipe-heat ducting)
    In addition:
    25' of 6" flex hose and about 10' of 5"
    6 plastic 6" ducts.

    ======= Our main machines in order of usage =====
    1956 Atlas Clausing TS (needs top collection system)
    Jet 6x48 belt/12" disk sander
    Grizzly 8" jointer
    Finish sanders (2nd worst to collect from)
    Ridgid 13" planer
    JDS Multi-Router (impossible machine to collect from)
    Rikon 14" BS
    Dewalt router by hand, not table. It's the one with the hollow column for dust - actually works pretty well.

  2. #2
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    Hi Michael,

    From my rather meek knowledge of dust collection, if you are wanting - or think that in the future you may want, to try and capture dust at the tool end then there is no substitute for air volume. So stick to the larger impeller/motor.

    As for the cyclone - I would think that if the air volume is the same (and high), you lose a little efficiency which in time might plug your filter, which is a key element of the system so you dont just recirculate fine particles back into your environment (as the filter clogs it may clean more efficiently, but there is a loss in airflow).

    Given that both you and your wife are spending several hours a day sanding, routing (high dust generators) - I would opt for the larger system. But perhaps even more important is to get some collection at the tool end where the dust is generated to begin with. I am of the personal opinion that long term exposure to small particles (of any type) is bad for your body.

    GREAT that you are using respirators!

    Just my $.02 Good luck navigating this ambiguous topic - in the end ultimately it is your own decision on what degree of exposure you are willing to risk.
    Last edited by Carl Beckett; 04-16-2012 at 12:23 PM.

  3. #3
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    Hi Michael. +1 that lots of airflow rarely goes amiss, especially on stuff like sanders.

    I don't know the 14in CV system as it was around before I took an interest. There's a fairly good chance though that the cyclone is the same size/dimensions as the current model, and that you could upgrade relatively cheaply by buying the 15 or 16in fan impeller from Clear Vue. (since it sounds like you already have the 5hp Leeson motor)

    It might be worth a call to Clear Vue to sort out the ins and outs of the 14in versus today's model, and whether or not such an upgrade is a realistic possibility.

    I don't know whether it will have a plastic or a steel cyclone, and presume the fan housing is MDF. I likewise know nothing about how these units do at high mileage, but it'd probably be worth inspecting the unit, and if that's not possible asking some fairly specific questions about wear, damage and the like. Photos might be useful too.

    ian

  4. #4
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    I believe the 1400 would satisfy your needs, but I also think his price is a good bit too high. For not too much more $$$ you can get a new 1800 with the contactor, remote, blast gates. all included. It you all be brand new (not a major consideration) and it would be at your doorstep WITH a new WARRANTY.

    If you buy the 1400, you will, most likely always be second guessing your decision ... get the 1800 and don't look back.
    FINISHING : NO ART & VERY LITTLE SCIENCE ... just a learned skill that requires a bit of practice and patience ... anyone can learn it.

  5. #5
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    I agree that the price is at the top for a used system. There was an 1800 in Oregon recently for $500 that was a great deal. $750-900 is more in line IMO. Dave

  6. #6
    $500 for an 1800? In Oregon? You've given me hope. This 1400 in in Bend (I'm in Boise), in fact here is the ad I should have included in my original post:
    http://bend.craigslist.org/tls/2926350673.html
    The unit looks pretty clean at least in such a tiny photo. And he did take some time to paint it. Here it is enlarged a bit:



    But both of you are right, it's too close to what I'd pay for an 1800. I might ask Clearvue about what it would take to upgrade it for interest's sake though.
    Last edited by Michael Hamilton, ID; 04-16-2012 at 10:21 PM. Reason: HTML!

  7. #7
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    Michael, its hard to go wrong with more CFM in woodshop dust collection. Given the amount of time you and your wife are spending in the shop, you would definitely appreciate any improvement. I think the other replies pretty much have this covered.

    I looked at a picture of the JDS multi-router, that could be a tough one to tame with a hood. You will likely never generate enough CFM to pull all the dust into the hood, so you need a hood that encloses the bit as much as possible so the dust is thrown or deflected into the hood. Of course, you can't limit access to the bit or function of the machine. What if you did a clear plastic hood over the top of the bit with at least a 4" hose attached. Is possible you could mount it with magnets to the face of the router mounting plate? This way, you could sort of see through it and it could be repositioned as necessary depending on the cut and bit changes. It may take a hood on the bottom as well, or maybe it would be better with two hoods, one on each side.

    Since you are spending a lot of time in the shop, better DC will also reduce the clean-up time and frequency. If you are doing this for profit, that equals production time.

    Mike

  8. #8
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    Michael,

    I own a CV1800 and I run a basement hobby shop.I do not run more that one machine at a time. Because of height constraints, I asked Ed Morgano at purchase time (the original owner of ClearVue) if I should consider the CV1400 because it was a little shorter. He advised against it because it had significantly less power and so I bought the 1800. Ed canceled production of the 1400 shortly after that. I am pleased with the 1800.

  9. #9
    Thanks! That pretty much settles the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wunder View Post
    Michael,

    I own a CV1800 and I run a basement hobby shop.I do not run more that one machine at a time. Because of height constraints, I asked Ed Morgano at purchase time (the original owner of ClearVue) if I should consider the CV1400 because it was a little shorter. He advised against it because it had significantly less power and so I bought the 1800. Ed canceled production of the 1400 shortly after that. I am pleased with the 1800.

  10. #10
    Sorry I didn't reply earlier, thanks for your thoughts. I've tried all sorts of ways to tame the beast. Currently have a big Rubbermaid tub attached to a 4" hose catching a lot of the chips if little dust. I'm a great fan of rare earth magnets and actually have tried to design something that would simply attach itself to some part of the MR although alot of it is aluminum. Now I'm actually trying to visualize the thing encased like a sand blasting cabinet. Hmmm.

    Otherwise it's one machine that's paid for itself many times over even at the huge price (it was "only" $1500 when I bought it years ago.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael W. Clark View Post
    Michael, its hard to go wrong with more CFM in woodshop dust collection. Given the amount of time you and your wife are spending in the shop, you would definitely appreciate any improvement. I think the other replies pretty much have this covered.

    I looked at a picture of the JDS multi-router, that could be a tough one to tame with a hood. You will likely never generate enough CFM to pull all the dust into the hood, so you need a hood that encloses the bit as much as possible so the dust is thrown or deflected into the hood. Of course, you can't limit access to the bit or function of the machine. What if you did a clear plastic hood over the top of the bit with at least a 4" hose attached. Is possible you could mount it with magnets to the face of the router mounting plate? This way, you could sort of see through it and it could be repositioned as necessary depending on the cut and bit changes. It may take a hood on the bottom as well, or maybe it would be better with two hoods, one on each side.

    Since you are spending a lot of time in the shop, better DC will also reduce the clean-up time and frequency. If you are doing this for profit, that equals production time.

    Mike

  11. #11
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    Michael,
    I've never used one, so I'm not sure what would interfere with the operation. Assuming the face plate is aluminum where the router is mounted, can you attach something ferrous to the face plate that would not interfere? Then you could design your hood to magnetically mount to it.

    Another option might be a hood support that slips over the top of the face plate. If this would work, the hood could be mounted to the support somehow so that the hood position can be adjusted. I'm thinking about how a router table fence guard is adjustable up and down, maybe something similar for the hood relative to the support.

    If you enclose the whole thing entirely, you are going to be marginal on CFM, even with the large collector. You will want to minimize the openings. You could make some access panels that are hinged for better access, maybe out of plexiglass for better visibility. If you can exhaust from the bottom or side, you will not be pulling dust past your line of sight and getting the enclosure dirty, making it harder to see. I've always used about 200 FPM for in draft velocity in an enclosure, but you may need more velocity because of the router throwing the dust. If you have a 1000 CFM and you use 300 FPM indraft velocty through your enclosure openings, then you could have an area of 3.33 ft2. Remember, openings in the bottom and top count as well. If you could do about 400 or 500 FPM through the opening you are looking throuhg, that would be best. Sorry my post is only conceptual. Maybe it will trigger an idea for you.

    Mike

  12. #12
    I was kidding about the sand blaster idea. I think. It's the one machine that would take everything a DC could muster. I'm sure I'll need several pipes pointed at it. And several barriers to contain the spewing chips/dust.
    Yep, I'll keep working on it now that I'm getting serious about dust after 30 years of neglect. The problem with the MR is that it moves the target so much - the XYZ axis thing, especially the way I use it, hogging out 4"x8" recesses in my box lids and trays and making box joints through four pieces at once. Hoods keep bumping up against vertical and horizontal tables, those long control handles etc. I'm working on adding my shopvac to the mix too. Plus a light breeze at my back with a fan, etc, etc. If I work something out I'll make a fortune selling it to JDS. Ha. Thanks Mike!

    Mike (I actually go by "Mike" too)

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael W. Clark View Post
    Michael,
    I've never used one, so I'm not sure what would interfere with the operation. Assuming the face plate is aluminum where the router is mounted, can you attach something ferrous to the face plate that would not interfere? Then you could design your hood to magnetically mount to it.

    Another option might be a hood support that slips over the top of the face plate. If this would work, the hood could be mounted to the support somehow so that the hood position can be adjusted. I'm thinking about how a router table fence guard is adjustable up and down, maybe something similar for the hood relative to the support.

    If you enclose the whole thing entirely, you are going to be marginal on CFM, even with the large collector. You will want to minimize the openings. You could make some access panels that are hinged for better access, maybe out of plexiglass for better visibility. If you can exhaust from the bottom or side, you will not be pulling dust past your line of sight and getting the enclosure dirty, making it harder to see. I've always used about 200 FPM for in draft velocity in an enclosure, but you may need more velocity because of the router throwing the dust. If you have a 1000 CFM and you use 300 FPM indraft velocty through your enclosure openings, then you could have an area of 3.33 ft2. Remember, openings in the bottom and top count as well. If you could do about 400 or 500 FPM through the opening you are looking throuhg, that would be best. Sorry my post is only conceptual. Maybe it will trigger an idea for you.

    Mike

  13. #13
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    Get one of these with an 8" duct.

    http://www.plymovent.com/int-en/prod...tion_arms.aspx

  14. #14
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    I have a similar machine to the MR Mike, and I empathize with you. I swear the thing throws the chips straight into my face as the primary discharge. Im not sure there a many choices other than a large collection hood.

    I wonder if you setup a secondary blower or fan going front the back across the system, with a large hood at the back going into your dust collection system, if you could get a cross flow current that would be enough to pull the dust through.

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