Floor finishing question

[Sam Murdoch]

I must respectfully disagree with Scott on this one. If you are not very comfortable using a belt sander you could be creating way more of a mess than you would ever want. Don't know if you are sanding oak or pine or other - but in any case I would not sand (for staining) with anything less than a good pad in-line sander or a good ROS with hard pad and end the sanding process with no less than 120 grit, possibly 150 or 180 depending on the hardness of your floor wood. The stain will telegraph any sanding marks but you might not see them until you are well in to your second coat of finish. A belt sander is not a tool that indulges the beginner. If your rooms aren't filled with sunlight you might be get away with less work but in a well lit room it's just not worth not doing the extra work.

Sam

[Scott Holmes]

Sam I agree with you if the stain is dark; if it's a golden oak or lighter and it's a red oak floor, i think an 80 grit with the grain will be fine. YES a belt sander can really make a mess in rookie hands; I saw a nice white oak front door the other day that looked like a second grader sanded it.

I don't think a ROS in rookie hands would be too good either. A screen pad sander on a stick as you do with drywall would be an option.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The floors are white oak.

I plan to take them to 120 grit with the U-Sand and check them to see if I need to go to 150 or not.

I'm going to be using MinWax oil stain - Golden Oak - on all the flooring.
The part I'm still up in the air about is using the Seal Coat.
I'd prefer to use it after the stain and before the first coat of water poly.
I may have to use it as a pre stain though. We'll see how the final sanding turns out.

Re: my wife and rollers...
She does fine on walls where spreading out the paint too far isn't much of a problem and over working the material doesn't cause issues.
I can see her habit of doing that if/when she'd use a clear coat as being a problem.
Plus the time frame involved with this project is probably going to find me alone doing the actual finish work while she's at her regular day job.

My best bet is to stick with the "pour and applicator pad" routine.
I just have to work out the timing for that as far as what order the rooms are done in so I can get them all done in one 12 hour day.

[Jason Roehl]

The typical professional way of applying floor finish is to use a T-bar applicator along with the "pour and snowplow" method. If you get the right applicator for your T-bar (angled ends vs. straight cut), with a little care you won't even need a brush around the edges of the room. If the finish doesn't come in a container conducive to pouring, a cheap, plastic watering can with the shower head removed is handy.

I avoid oil-based floor finishes. I hate them. Shellac (Zinsser SealCoat) and waterborne finishes for me.

[Rich Engelhardt]

I avoid oil-based floor finishes. I hate them. Shellac (Zinsser SealCoat) and waterborne finishes for me.

Any preference on a decent one?

I was looking at them last week and have settled on the Parks Pro water poly.
I'm open to anything though that's compatible with Seal Coat and an oil based stain.

[Dick Holt]

Rich,
LOL, I know what you mean about the sander. I rented a four disc ROS sander from HD. I sanded thru four grits; 36, 60, 80 and 100. Next time (yeah right, there will never be another time!) I would only use three. Wouldn't you know after I finished sanding the floor, I was at Lowe's buying some Varathane floor finish (satin oil base) I noticed that they rent a Varathane 3 disc sander for $37, which I have heard is a lot easier to use. I paid $73 at HD. I really like the Varathane floor finish, it is much clearer than the Minwax I used last time. My wife and I put on the third (of 4) coats yesterday as soon as she got home from work . During the day I sanded, vacuumed and wiped the floor down with MS during the day (I retired last year. My wife still works to support me and pay for my tools!). It is raining today , not a good drying day, so I may just prep the floor and finish it tomorrow. One trick I used that helped my back a lot is to tape a brush to a pole so that I don't have to bend over for 2-3 hours. Using Scott's method, my wife rolled a strip of 4 boards (about the width of the roller) all the way across the floor, about 25 feet. Then I took the brush, on the pole, and went over what she had just done, as quickly as I could. Then I went back and tipped off the boards one at a time from one end of the floor to the other without lifting the brush off the floor. I have a bad back and after doing the first two coats on my knees, bent over, I just couldn't continue that way. Looking at the floor this morning, it looks awesome. Not one brush mark anywhere. I know you mentioned using water based finish, but one of the most important things I did was to thin the poly by about 20% with MS. Flows and levels much better. And how are You doing?

[Scott Holmes]

I will add that the Varathane oil-based Poly floor finish with nanotechnology is excellent; my 1st choice on oil-based floor finishes. One of the nicest features is that the satin flattening agent stays well mixed.

[Chris Padilla]

How about some pics, Folks?!

[Rich Engelhardt]

floorb4.jpg

Chris, here's a before of a section I had to redo.
I'll take another shot of the same area after all the stain and finish is on.
(I'm crossing my fingers that it turns out looking better )

All the floors in the house were in similar bad shape. The boards in the dining room were so warped and water damaged we had to replace the entire 10'x 10' section.
The tenant had used the dining room to kennel her three dogs. (nice huh?)
She also insisted on cleaning the wood floors with Clorox and water - no doubt in an attempt to control the pet odors.

Dick,
Yep - I used the same 4 disk machine - the U-sand.
I had to split it into two sessions - all day Saturday, then about 5 hours last evening.
I had to go with a 24 hour rental both days since the house is an hour and 15 min drive away.

I'd love to use Varathane on the floors, but, I'm a bit gun shy about using it over Zinsser Seal Coat.
Varathane may claim new technology, but, from everything I can find, it's one of the last poly's out there that's good old "liquid plastic".
The good old time stuff that was both hard and tough.

LOL! Glad to hear you survived the ordeal!
My finishing fun is still ahead.
I still have three rooms left to edge w/a ROS and 80 grit, then the whole house to edge w/120 grit.
I'm hoping to get that done today & get the stain on.
The stain has to dry 72 hours before the water poly can go on.
If I miss the today deadline, I'm stuck until next Monday getting the finish down.

[Scott Holmes]

Shellac that has been dewaxed is an excellent sealer for the finishes out there in the big box stores and the woodworking stores.

Shellac is the universal sealer...

[Rich Engelhardt]

Shellac is the universal sealer...

Dewaxed shellac - there - fixed it for ya .

Seal Coat does say it's 100% safe under any finish.

OTOH - the Varathane label specifically says to remove any shellac.
They (Varathane) don't make any distinction between dewaxed shellac and natural shellac.

W/the time crunch we're under, I can't afford any more things on this house to go wrong, no matter how slight the chance.
If anything at all goes wrong, for whatever reason - related to the Seal Coat or not - Varathane has the out printed right on the label.
Since it usually always boils down to the last coat failing, then I'm sure Zinsser (RPM) would point the finger at Varathane - (which is also RPM, but, a different division).

Sadly, I have to use the Seal Coat since it's needed to seal in the last traces of pet odors. (That black stain in the above is from the dog not quite making it out the door..)
I'd love to be able to just stain the floors to even out things, then put on two coats of Varathane and be done with it.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to play it safe though and put on the stain, wait 72 hours, put on the Seal Coat and then give it 4 coats of water poly.

Everything in this house that was supposed to work, hasn't.
The walls are a perfect example.
They were a dark colored semi gloss. We washed and rinsed them, then primed with Bullesye 1-2-3 - the good one, the interior/exterior.
When we rolled the finish coat on, it alligatored. I went back, scraped/sanded, reprimed and recoated, and it alligatored.
I had to scrape/sand and prime with BIN, then give it two coats of flat latex.
I've never had 123 fail on me like that.

There's something contaminating the surfaces that I just can't put my finger on.
The house is downwind of the steel plant and has been for 50 plus years.
If the paint had failed down to one of the older layers, that might account for the problem.

It didn't though. The 123 failed down to the paint the tenant had applied within the last 5 to 7 years.
It also happened in multiple rooms, painted at different times.


Sorry for going on like this.....
I'd try the dewaxed shellac/Varathane if things were different, but, I can't risk getting in the middle of a pointing match if anything goes wrong.

The double sad part of the whole thing is that it's a shame that soo much work is going into this for, what amounts to nothing,,or worse yet, a waste of good money.
We've slaved over this place for 4 months now, working like dogs and poured buckets of money into fixing it up - just to see the value go down as we work on it...

[Scott Holmes]

Rich,

If there is something contaminating stuff; Shellac if your friend. Varethane will stick to dewaxed shellac no problem. The waterborne finish is much less likely to stick to the oil based stain and or the unknown contaminate.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Scott,
I'm going to chance it with the Varathane I think...
Every time we've done something on this house "by the book", something weird has cropped up.
That and - we're out of time on this.
We really don't have the extra 48 hours of drying time called for with the water poly.

[Scott Holmes]

Get some box fans blowing across the floor to help the drying process of the stain. 24 hours with fans should be fine.

[Rich Engelhardt]

The stain I put on Wed night was dry by Thurs morning, so, I figure what I put on Thurs should be good to coat come Saturday.
I came -><- this close to putting the Seal Coat on the rooms I stained Wed, yesterday after I finished up with the staining - but - the beer ran out!
LOL!

Probably a good thing though since my old body was really screaming after the workout.
This place is going to kill me yet.