Water Based Stain on Plywood Rag Marks

[Adrian Anguiano]

So i built a console out of White Oak Plywood, and White Oak Hardwood. Sanded everything to 220grit.

I decided to use General Finishes Water Based Stain - Espresso

Then I used a rag and brushed the stain on with the grain of the wood. Since the cabinet was all built, going with the grain on the insides of the cabinet was tough. Even on the sides of the outside of the console. getting to the very top and bottom. No matter how careful i was I got buffing marks. The stain was very even but you could see hazy marks where i made my rag strokes. And on the corners to get out the excess stain i had to go across the grain and you could see that stroke as well.

As i said, the stain was perfectly even, and the amount of stain used and wiped off was even, but you could see the marks.

I then did another coat of stain. This time i brushed it on, and then went back with a foam brush and lightly went back over it, and that took away the "marks." Only problem being that now my furniture piece is darker than I wanted.

Also I only had this problem with the plywood. No rag marks or issues on all the hardwood pieces on the piece.

So is this common? Did i experience this due to using a water based stain, instead of using an oil based? Do I need to use a pre stain conditioner first when using plywood?
Thanks

Heres a pic of it finished after 2 coats. It has adjustable pin hole shelves. Its going to hold their TV and Audio Equipment.
console.jpg

[sheldon pettit]

Hi Adrian, Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, Your not using just a dye stain. It also contains somewhere between 10-20% acrylic resin. A pure water dye where only dye and water are used can be controlled much easier with a little know how. When using a dye that has a binder this becomes more difficult.

That said, where your at now, You've only have a few choices to proceed. I will wait to see what follows as to postings, and if something isn't mentioned i will reply back.

What i will tell you now is that before proceeding with any color work on a project, you "MUST" make samples, if working on something that has corners then make samples with corners to test before going ahead with the project. Also make them big enough to give you a very good idea of what may happen when doing it to the real thing or approximate the time it would take to apply and wipe off so as there are no surprises once you start ok?

This is not advice to someone new to finishing, Most, as you now have also, have learned to do so by getting themselves in similiar postitons on their own work. With almost 50 years in the business, i assure you if you follow the advice, you will not make mistakes like this in the future, it is not something i tell others to do, it is something i have been doing from the beginning and still do, so as not to have surprises or problems arise.

I would also recommend for anyone who is getting ready or thinking about what they might use and how, to keep in mind that the best time to do so is before any materials are purchased or used. The best way to avoid problems is by not ignorantly [which we all are.] waiting till something goes wrong and then seeking help. Several min. or so of typing, and a little more time in reading replies, compared to what you or others are or may be facing as to not doing so, is well worth the effort, don't you agree??

Sincerely,

SP

[Adrian Anguiano]

My conundrum is really with the general finishes brand water based finish. If others have the same experience with it. If this is normal with this finish then I won't use it again and stick with oil based or dye stain. Not being able to just rag on the stain to plywood is just too time consuming.

I normally only get water based when I'm using my earlex sprayer. But since it was 20 mph wind this weekend spraying wasn't an option.

[joe milana]

You might try calling General finishes & ask. Also, Jeff at homestead finishing products may be able to help as well.

[Craig Coney]

If you haven't put finish on top of the stain, you should be able to remove most of it with water using a spray bottle and rags. You could check with GF and ask about the conditioner or modifier to add to the stain. If I have plywood and solid wood together, I'll typipcally seal it with a 1/2# cut of shellac, then sand down to use as a light conditioner. Test peices are good to experiment & figure out the exact balance.

When wiping WB stain, I usually take the rags which are saturated with stain and wrap around my clean rags in the middle which helps the streaking with WB stains and will absorb the excess stain.