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Thread: cap iron adjustments ( like in the japanese video ) wont let my LN blade protrude....

  1. All of this stuff makes my head hurt.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Taglienti View Post
    How far is the chipbreaker from the edge usually? Its got to be within 1/16. They must have engineered more travel into the adjuster than that. Is your chipbreaker altered?
    It's usually up a little farther , some where just under an 1/8" from the edge of the blade... I used to think I ran it down fairly tight to the blade edge, and it has never given me a problem.... until I saw this video, and tried to run it down even farther....

  3. #18
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    has anybody else got a four or five from LN they can see if they encounter the same problems....

  4. #19
    I can check a 7 tonight - it'll have the same frog/iron/cap asssembly as your 5 1/2.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. Callaway View Post
    has anybody else got a four or five from LN they can see if they encounter the same problems....
    I have an LN #4 and #4 1/2 with 55 degree frog, and they both have plenty of travel in the blade adjustment mechanismfor this setup. I also have a LN 5 1/2and interestingly it seems like it would be right at the end of the adjuster travel with this kind of mouth set up.

    You might want to try Moving the frog farther forward and see if you need less blade travel to achieve the same mouth opening.Just thinking about the geometry, it doesn't seem like this would make a difference, but I'm not nearly smart enough to know for sure -- I generally go with the "try it and see" approach.

    I would be interested to know if you hear anything from Lee Nielsen about whether they intended the #5 to be set up this way.

    Mike

  6. #21
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    Nov 2009
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    That is odd. I have been taught and have seen many video's that state the chipbreaker should be within at least 1/16" of the edge of the iron. I have 4 different LN planes that I practice this on, one of them being a #5. I typically set it closer to a 1/32" and have never even come close to maxing out the travel of the adjuster.

    I do not have a LN 5.5 though so am not sure about this setup. It would seem that they would've designed the plane to be set up with this 1/16" or less and have no issues. Very odd.

  7. #22
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    Nov 2009
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    If you move the frog forward to compensate, you close up the mouth too tight, and the blade cant come out far enough to do anything beyond bury itself into the sole of the plane inside the mouth....

    This is why I want some else to see if they hit the same situation as me.... before I go and call them... Cause I dont think there is anything wrong with the tool, I think we are hoping to use a western plane set up as a japanese tool, and the tools are alike, but there is a difference in a japanese plane and it's setup compared to a bedrock/bailey style plane and it's set up....

    And odds are, as I said before, unless I have a custom breaker made, the replacement will be the same as this with that 3.820" distance from edge to hole.

  8. #23
    I'm pretty sure I've got a good fit between the cap iron and blade (kinda hard to tell since things need to be assembled to check). It is light tight and a thou & half feeler gauge fed into the mouth doesn't get stuck.
    Note that the old Stanley caps effectively have a tiny wall where the cap meets the blade (as in the video), I'm guessing that that, in some cases, the chip deflects into the back of the mouth and wads.

  9. #24
    Stock irons, stock everything (except a 1/8" blade on a Sargent, I was messing with five planes).
    You are correct, the photo shows the result of not enough cap iron setback, the nice shaving shows the result of moving it up a bit.

  10. #25
    Unless it was less than 3 thousandths or so, it shouldn't have caused a jam up like that unless the mouth was also too tight.

    I think a lot of people are watching the videos and then compromising to a pretty wide band of iron before the chipbreaker, and at that point the chipbreaker is doing nothing to improve the cut quality. If it's bending the chip, you can feel a pretty significant difference in resistance to push with a 2 thousandth shaving thickness.

  11. #26
    I checked my #7 last night (like I said I would) and it only just will protrude from the mouth with the second iron set tight and the iron projected absolutely all the way forward. This is problematic because with a little bit of wear on the second iron (which needs a flat on the front on mine, anyway), it won't adjust all the way down.

    I think this is a design flaw that probably extends across at least a batch with that size frog and chipbreaker, and perhaps nobody noticed because they don't actually use the second iron to break chips.

    In addition, several years ago, I remember someone (peter mcbride on the old tools list maybe) stating that the "improved" design of chipbreaker is actually no improvement at all vs. the stanley stock design. I didn't believe it at the time, but I'm inclined to agree now. That it's a neutral proposition at best, it certainly doesn't work better than the stanley design.

    I don't know what I'm going to do with mine, while it still has the projection to adjust properly, I'll use it as such. if it takes on wear and won't adjust toward the edge properly, just lengthening the round slot won't work because the adjuster is out of travel. I may end up filing another one out of O1 stock, but it'd be a lot of work for what it is, and practical use (to not sink a lot of time) would probably dictate just tightening the mouth instead and leaving the cap iron back a bit.

    It's disappointing, though, on what is otherwise a fine piece of gear, and as stable as the LN bench planes are, they are really fine pieces of gear that are a pleasure to use.

  12. #27
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    Mar 2003
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    For what it's worth, the blade/chip breaker I purchased from Lee Valley for use in a Bailey #7 has plenty of adjustment range with the breaker set to within a couple of thousandths of the edge. Rob got it right. Again.

    David, I for one would be interested in hearing the reply from LN if you would take this issue to them. After all, you started all this with your video!

  13. #28
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    Aug 2005
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    Question -- if the issue is that moving the frog forward would cause the mouth the be too tight why not open up the mouth a tad? Perhaps LN would be willing to do that if you don't want to attack your LN with a file?

  14. #29
    I guess because it's a bandaid solution to the real issue, which is just where the hole in the chipbreaker is in relation to distance from the front edge. Else you'll have the mouth filed far open and lots more mouth behind it.

    If I ever get motivated to do anything about mine, I will probably just pein it shut with a piece of brass and drill and file a slot for the adjuster back one width of the adjuster from the peined hole. Total time investment would be less, and I'd get to the same place. Mine is right on the bleeding edge, and I'll be able to use it like that for a while if I choose to use it like that instead of closing the mouth.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Great Pacific Northwest
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    LN #5 Works

    I have a LN #5 and about one step beyond zero experience setting up or using a quality plane. I was able to adjust the CB to something close to 1/64" off the edge of the blade and had no problem getting the blade/CB mounted back on the frog. There is not much clearance between the hole in the CB and the screw, but there is enough that it does not interfere with adjusting the blade to well beyond any reasonable depth of cut.

    Hope that helps with your analysis.

    Tom

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