More on moving jointer/planer

[Dan Forman]

Having successfully moved the bandsaw, I am now faced with doing the same to a Mini-Max FS35 jointer planer. Shipping weight is 940 lb, net wt is 858.

It has to go over the back lawn, which is soft, and was very difficult to get the bandsaw over on an appliance dolly, as the small wheels sunk right into the turf. I have a few calls out to moving companies to get estimates, but am wondering what the best strategy would be if I don't go that route.

I'm thinking larger wheels would be a must, also a flat, 4 wheel dolly of some sort. The main concern is what to do assuming we can get it to the door. Below are pics of the back door, it's a straight shot down the stairs from there. Not sure how to negotiate the small steps up across the threshold. it would seem to be necessary to get it off the dolly at that point to slide it down the stairs. This time I am thinking a 3/4" plywood ramp lying tight to the stairs, and sliding the whole pallet down on that. I would think that would generate a fair amount of friction to help slow the descent, then use a rope around the porch post to aid in control, which worked well for the bandsaw. Not sure how to pull it the rest of the way forward to level ground once the front end reaches the bottom of the stairs. So how would I get the pallet off of the dolly and to the point where it would slide down the ramp, and how to get the machine off the pallet and on to the floor once it is down the stairs?

Could I rig a block and tackle to help lift the dead weight in order to remove the pallet and get it on the floor? It suppse it would have to be suspended from the ceiling joists, which are 1 1/2 x 9 actual size. Would they hold that kind of weight?

It will come with the mobility kit installed, so once on the floor, shouldnt be too hard to move into place.

I just called a rental company, they have a larger appliance dolly which has an extra set of "kicker wheels" so that it can be laid flat like a piano dolly. The wheels are bigger, about 10" around and 3" wide, an improvement over what we used yesterday. The guy said it could go down the stairs just like the smaller dolly. I think with that weight I would want to re-enforce the stairs a bit. He suggested paving the way with plywood to get across the soft ground.

If I can get someone to do it for a reasonable rate, I would be tempted to go that route, however that may be difficult to arrange without a precise delivery time, which is not possible. One mover I called gave me a $300 estimate, based on a 3 hour minimum, which is more than I want to pay. Another will get back to me tomorrow, and apparently don't have a minimum time, so might be more reasonable.

If I rely on friends again, the main questions are:

When to remove the shipping crate?

Go down the stairs on the big appliance dolly, or slide down the stairs on a ramp?

If the latter, how to get it to the point where it will slide down?

If I pick it up in my truck, how to get it out and down to the ground?

I have to go to work now, will check back later for any suggestions you might have.

Thanks much.

Dan

[Richard Wolf]

Dan, you are talking very serious weight. It should not be taken lightly (pun). There was a thread, I think on the Felder group about a guy moving two very heavy machines downstairs. I think he used a winch to lower it into the basement while it was on skids. You must use a saftey device like this. 900 lbs will kill one of your good friends if it gets away.

Richard

[Jim Becker]

I suggest you do it the way that Rob Russell did as Richard mentions...block and tackle to control it on the slope while you slide it down on a board or three. Depending on your headroom, it is probably best to have it off the pallet as the metal frame will slide easier on the boards. IMHO. But if you do keep it on the pallet, there are two clearly marked lifting points that would allow you to use a block and tackle to lift it off the pallet. One is on a front corner and one is on the back.

Rent a low, tilting trailer to transport it unless you have a loader or forklift available to get it off the truck at home!

[Tom Kelley]

If it were me I'd spend the extra money and have professional movers do this work. They are or should be insured. What if you or one of your friends gets hurt? Call me chicken but it just seems like too much weight and too many things could go wrong. Either way good luck!

Tom Kelley

[Rob Russell]

I'm the guy with the Felders who slid them down into a basement. The info and some pics were posted in this SMC thread.

FYI Dan - your pictures of the stairs didn't come through in your post.

Rob

[Dan Forman]

First of all, thanks for your responses thus far, and here are the missing pics. Well, they ended up on the bottom, don't know how to control placement yet. The headroom going down the stairs is at least 47", so that shouldn't be a problem.

Now then, pro movers sound like a pretty good idea, but if cost or logistics rule that out, I'm thinking sliding down on a board sounds better than bumping the dolly down the stairs. Maybe joining three or four 2 x 8's from below with 2 x 4's, which coultd then be screwed to the stairs to prevent slippage of the ramp. It would certainly be easier on the stairs, as the weight would be more evenly distributed, and there would be no banging on each stair. Going down a ramp on the dolly with the wheel on sounds a bit frightning, like it would be too hard to control without the help of more than a little friction for braking.

Another idea was to put a piece of 3/4" plywood a little bit larger than the pallet over the dolly, then bolt the pallet to it, so that if it needs to come off the dolly to slide down the board, there will be a smooth surface to slide on. If the pallet itself had any cross pieces, they might catch and hang it up on something. I don't know about sending it down uncrated and on it's own legs, it might want to slide down too easily, and It might be better to have friction helping to brake on the way down. And if there was any sort of mishap, the crate would help absorb some of the energy.

Two block and tackle units sound good also, one pulling from the basement, mounted high to effect a straight line pull, and one from high on the door for a brake going down. I have been looking for good anchors, and that may present a challenge, but is probably do-able.

The main trick then would be sliding it off the dolly and on to the landing. I guess the basement block and tackle could handle that, then pull it to the tipping point, and let gravity, friction, and the upper mounted B+T fight it out. Nearing that point, I wouldn't want anyone in the line of descent in case of mishap.

It might even be possible to leave it on the dolly and remove the wheels, sliding it down on the dolly frame.

I think that the lift gate delivery is the only option shy of having the movers pick up and deliver. It sounds like Mini-Max gets a pretty favorable rate from the truckers for delivery. At first I thought that canceling the delivery would go a long way toward paying the movers, but it doesn't look like it will work out that way.

So, does anyone see any flaws in this plan? If so, please let me know. I will go and look at that big rental dolly, seeing it will answer some strategic questions.

I lined up another helper today, and if we do it in the evening, there are two neighbors who could also be enlisted, so that would make six. They would be mostly useful in getting over the lawn and to the door. By using the block and tackle and ramp, the path downward would be clear, and there would be no extra weight on the stairs other than the beast itself. It should not weigh as much as Rob's big Felder machines.

It's really kind of funny that this project will hinge on using the most simple machines known...pullies, inclined plane, and levers, decidedly low tech devices.

Again, thanks for any feedback, it is most welcome.

Dan

[Rob Russell]

Dan,

A couple of comments:

• We rolled my machines over the lawn on plywood. Note the white stuff on the ground - the ground was frozen which made it easier.
• It may not have been obvious from the pictures in my post (you had to read down a bit), but my machines were attached to a wooden sled. That sled is what slid down on 2"x2" steel rails - the dolly itself was just used to get the machines around my house to the hatchway.
• The anchor point to keep the J/P from hurtling down the stairs needs to be farther back than the doorway. Otherwise the J/P will slide waaaaaay down the stairs before the block&tackle catches it.
• Block and tackles tend to be expensive. For $30 or $40 you can buy a rachet come-a-long at any of the big box stores that will crank all you want. the hassle is the one for controlling the slide down. The come-a-longs would mean releasing tension, letting it down a few inches, repeat, repeat ... If you want to do things on the cheap:
  • brace each of your porch columns with a piece of 2x4 running back to the house (so the base doesn't kick towards the house
  • mount a 4x4 across the 2 columns
  • use the "wrap a rope around the 4x4 technique" to control the slide
  
  I'd still get a come-a-long for the basement to pull the machine down onto the stairs.
• Check with MiniMax on their techniques, but the Felder equipment came attached to the shipping skids with a set of cleats. I'd just use those cleats to mount the J/P on a pair of 2x8's (the flat way, obviously). The 2x8's should be no more than an inch or 2 longer than your J/P's base. Remember that at the bottom of the stairs, once the machine - Screw (2) sets of 2x6's (side by side so you get an 11" wide sliding surface) to the stairs. That'll give you a nice wide ramp to slide down. You might consider putting a single brace under the stairs - just a vertical 2x4 right in the middle of the stairs to your floor. It'd dramatically stiffen the stairs so you don't have to worry about sag.
• Liftgate delivery makes life a lot easier. Get the J/P off of the pallet onto the flat 2x8's in your garage where you have room to work. Then you're only getting the J/P off the the 2x8's in the basement.

Just a few quick thoughts.

Rob

[Jeff Sudmeier]

As others have said, 900 lbs is a LOT of weight!! At the most you are talking about two people being able to get below the machine, they would be the ones taking all of the weight.

I am no small boy, but I can't hold 500 lbs. You really need to think this one through. Would I tackle it myself?? I would like to say no, but we all know the answer, yes I would.

The main Requirement for this move is No one in the basement in the "line of fire". No one should be physically guiding this machine down the stairs... If it does let go, you don't want someone hurt. Your insurance will cover the damage, but not a life.

I have moved a 1200lb printing press out of a basement with two guys. Got it on a dolly with wheels, mounted plywood to the stairs and had a 5000lb winch at the top of the stairs. Our mounting point was about like yours, which we didn't trust. So we chained the winch to the truck that would be hauling the press. We didn't have any problems, but we were both at the top of the stairs on the way up. Used the winch to winch it up the stairs.

Good luck, most of all think this one through before you under take it. A rope around a porch post won't hold back 900lbs safely.

[Dan Forman]

Bob---Thanks for clearing up several things I was unsure about after reading your post. I like the idea of making "skis" for the beast to slide on.

The other moving outfit works on an hourly basis, but they would end up with about $300 too, baring any surprises, so at this point I am thinking of going ahead with it myself.

I feel better prepared now, which is at least half the battle. The machines will certainly be relied upon to do the grunt work, with nobody in harms way.

Dan

[Steven Wilson]

I wouldn't employ a moving company, what you're looking to hire is a rigger. I looked into renting some rigging tools (j lift jacks, machinery movers, fork lifts, etc) and for the price of renting the appropriate tools I was able to hire an industrial rigging firm to take delivery of my combo, haul it to the house with an 18 wheeler and deliver it into my garage with a forklift. If you can take delivery by yourself then you'll only need to pay the hourly charge and it shouldn't take to long with the correct equipment. Check your yellow pages for machinery mover, rigger, industrial moving, etc.