Oversize Dust Collector? Oneida V System 3HP vs. 5HP

[mreza Salav]

One extra point: I too have a ClearVue in a basement shop (I have documented it here in a thread how I enclosed it in a closet to reduce the noise).
One advantage of CV is larger filter area.

[Erik Christensen]

My 2 cents is take a look at clearvue. I have had their system for about 4 years - 6" PVC ducting, 3 car garage sized shop, pulls like crazy, no noticeable difference in performance if running 2 stations at once. Of all the tools I have purchased I think it represents the best value and performance.

[Mike Heidrick]

What are the amp requirements of teh 5hp and is that an issue for you?

I run two 5hp DCs - a single stage Delta and a Delta cyclone.

Look for the larger impeller of the machines you are running.

[Ole Anderson]

If you go with a 5 hp, even a 3 hp, don't hamstring yourself and think you will be happy with 6" PVC duct, you want 7" or 8" main runs for that much suckability.

[Paul Wunder]

ClearVue makes two 5 hp models:

CV1800 which is the one most of us choose. It has a 15" impeller and a 6" inlet for 6" PVC ducting

CV1800 Max which is to be used if you anticipate using two machines at the same time. It has a 16" impeller and an 8" inlet for ducting

Both models have the same size cyclone and filters

[David Kumm]

Keep in mind that if you shorten or build your own stand you can shave off some height. Use 35 gal drums rather than 55 and I bet you can lose 10-12" in height. 35 gal is enough to carry up stairs anyway. If you see a used Aget push through system with the impeller along side rather than on top, that is an option. Dustkop cyclones are a step up from the hobby type ones although the CV separation is as good or better. Dave

[Ben Martin]

Mike, Power won't be an issue at all as I am having a new 200A service ran to the shop.

Ole, I have left over 6" ducts for the end runs, but will need to buy new for everythig else.

David, I was thinking about making my own collection drum, but read a lot of stuff claiming that the bin is an integral part to the system also.

Clearvue hasn't really been an option thus far, I just can't get over the looks of their machines... (not to start a debate...)

[David Kumm]

Ben, I use Oneida's stock 35 gal drum, just not their stand. When you are using a sander and filters you generally want the cone to be longer so it is tougher to fit everything under the ceiling. One of the reasons hobby cyclones aren't very efficient at fine dust is the attempt to build them to fit under lower ceilings. Life is a tradeoff. Dave

[Jamie Buxton]

A potential issue with extra horsepower is heat. A 5 hp motor generates something like 3000 watts of heat. A typical one of those 110-volt plug-in room heaters puts out about 800 watts. So running your cyclone is like running four of those room heaters. Run the cyclone for a couple of hours, and it will heat up a 600 sq ft shop quite a bit.

[Rick Fisher]

Oneida will have a suggested pipe size for the 5hp machine.. I would follow their directions.

I have a 4hp Felder RL-160. Yesterday, I sucked up a redbull can through a 4" hose.. The 4" hose is about 5 feet long and connects to about 20 feet of 6" PVC with 3-4 bends ..

I freaked .. wondering if the can was full or empty.. shut down the machine as fast as I could .. The can was gone, inside the dust bin . The can was an empty..

For $300 .. get the bigger DC.. It gives you lots of flexibility .. ability to leave other gates open, even by accident.. If you get a bigger sanding machine, you don't have to have it really close to the DC .. 5hp is freedom compared to 3hp ..

I have learned a bunch about airflow and dust collectors of late.. I have an issue with my Felder RL-160 ... if I leave 2 gates open, it trips the overload on the motor .. I am using the factory suggested size pipe but if I had gone with bigger pipe than suggested, it would probably trip even more .. Its a new problem, nothing has changed in 3-4 years.. not really sure why its happening .. As a sideline.. I learned that giving the machine too much airflow is not smart.. My problem is not specifically too much airflow, but too much airflow now aggravates my problem ..

Hope that made sense.. lol

[Chris Parks]

I think some clarification is in order here, the Clearvue does not use the whole 5hp, just a tad over 3hp on the 1800.

[ian maybury]

Another very happy Clear Vue user here - in this case a largely DIY version to Bill Pentz's drawings.

(1) You don't necessarily have to use the stock Clear Vue layout or fit it under a ceiling. My system (build and install photos here http://www.gallery2.clearvuecyclones...Max/ondablade/ Despite being fairly inactive now there's lots of good CV info in this forum) placed the fan upstairs with the cyclone poking through a hole, and the filters separately set up for the more easily cleaned outside to inside flow. While it's more work there are noise reduction advantages to this layout. There are other layout variations possible too. e.g. separation of the fan and the cyclone with ducting.

(2) Larger diameter fan impellers like the 16in CV Max not only move more air, they also (as a result of the higher tip speed for a given RPM) develop significantly more suction/negative pressure. (judging by published fan curves it seems that even a 1in increase in diameter makes a significant difference) Which means they deal much better with restrictive hoods on machines.

This system draws just under 4HP with one gate open, depending on the motor efficiency and restriction/duct size some get a little higher.

(3) Duct sizing is a bit of a trade off. It seems to be possible with these impellers (it's tough in absence of fan curves to know for sure exactly what the limits are) to get more CFM by going larger than the 6in Bill Pentz standardised on (his pages deal with the topic of using 8in headers with the 16in impeller), but if overdone it's possible to slip below the industry guideline of minimum 4000ft/min for safe transportation of dust and chips up verticals.

If in doubt there's the option of enlarging just the horizontal runs/headers to minimise the potential for issues. Personal experience suggests that the 16in CV impeller has no difficulty running at least 160mm (a Euro size) verticals - it'll robustly transport chunks of wood up them even when pulling through a long and quite restrictive 4in flexible floor sweep. (provided no other gates are open) It shouldn't be necessary to reduce verticals (below this) on a properly performing 5HP system unless there's going to be a lot of restriction somewhere - or the fan is notably inefficient.

(4) The Clear Vue impeller has fairly minimal backwards curve on the impeller blades. This while possibly a little noisier likely delivers significantly better performance at higher pressure drops. There may also be reason to think that the taller cyclone does a better job on separating fines than some.

(5) There's no significant down side to throttling a big fan to reduce air flow - it actually reduces the amps and power drawn from the motor.

It's hard to see downsides to running a larger fan. (other than the previous initial cost - heating and energy usage are not really an issue unless it'll be run for longish periods) Even on something like a router table that strictly speaking isn't set up to use high CFM the extra suction delivers improved collection. The extra CFM makes it possible also to run an ancilliary 4in dust collection hose that can be placed where needed to capture escaping dust.

If cost is an issue it's possible to still do a decent job with around 3HP and a fan/impeller to match. The catch in that case is that the duct runs and hoses need to be kept very short (not much more than about 10ft with minimal bends and other restrictions) or the restriction will pull the available air flow (CFM) down low enough that the performance suffers.

Dust systems that move a lot of air (say over 1,000CFM) and run HEPA or similar standard cartridge filters not only do a superior job of dust collection, they also by pulling in a lot of air in th area of the machine do a very similar air cleaning job to that done by separate cleaners.



Despite all of this having high CFM and high suction isn't a universal solution for all dust collection issues. It most certainly does step the performance up very significantly compared to e.g. a 1kW bag filter on pretty much any machine you care to mention, and can be throttled down if needed should an issue arise (i've not seen one yet) but as in the threads on table saw dust hoods the details can still matter if you're looking to truly maximise dust collection performance.

ian

[Ben Martin]

Ben, I use Oneida's stock 35 gal drum, just not their stand. When you are using a sander and filters you generally want the cone to be longer so it is tougher to fit everything under the ceiling. One of the reasons hobby cyclones aren't very efficient at fine dust is the attempt to build them to fit under lower ceilings. Life is a tradeoff. Dave

David,
Are you using the wall bracket or something else? The 97.5" they list is with the wall bracket.

Can anybody tell me what the height to the top of the cyclone is not including the motor (they don't list that)? I want to see if it will fit under my garage door rails and leave the filter semi blocking a door...

Thanks!

EDIT: Found the height, 81" to the center of the exit, if anybody could get more exact it would be appreciated.

[Todd Brewer]

Clearvue hasn't really been an option thus far, I just can't get over the looks of their machines... (not to start a debate...)

I had a problem with that too. Then they came out with the painted version. I must say once installed I think it looks great. And I'm pretty picky about looks.

I bought a black steel drum because I don't like the garbage can look. It looks very professional. Of course this will add more cost.

I didn't use the cantilever shelf method either. I lagged a 1.5" x 1.5" x about 24" long piece of aluminum angle to the wall. I screwed two eye bolts into a rafter. The motor assembly rests on the angle and two long eye bolts in the motor assembly connect to the ceiling eye bolts via S hooks. The motor assembly is bolted to the angle in two places. Very secure. Very clean look.

Battery in my camera is dead. Once recharged I'll try to post a picture (never posted a picture on this forum before).

Someday I am going to post a complete review of my dust collection system. It is not yet complete. A lot of people on this site helped and offered opinions. I want to show them how it turned out.

Todd

[Ben Martin]

Todd,

I would be interested in those pictures, I can't find amything about a painted Clearvue...

Ben