Cyclone Buyer - I need help and advise please!!!

[Kyle Tucker]

Hello all. I recently sold my Jet DC-1100 duct collector and in the market for a cyclone collector, and I would appreciate all input to help aid me in my decision. I have about a 1000 sq. foot home shop below my garage, and I enjoy woodworking very much, I just wish I had more time to do it. That said I am a hobby woodworker, but I tend to go overboard (usually) when I buy equipment, favoring the buy it once and forget it approach. I considered going with a bigger dc unit and adding a separator, but I would much rather go the cyclone route and have everything contained in one unit. I am really high on the mobile JDS cyclones, either the 2100 (2HP) or the 3100 (3HP). All of the features they list I like, but the 3100 is probably a bit of overkill for me, especially since I will be using only one machine at a time 99% of the time, plus the extra $500 pricetag. My confusion also lies in some of the opinions on past posts I have looked up here on this unit in relation to it having a smaller cone (in comparison to other units in this category, including stationary). The Grizzly G0441 would be another option for me (stationary), as the cfm's are about equal to that of the JDS 2100, but with the Grizzly I get the larger cone. I would also appreciate any input on a stationary model in use, whether to wall mount (I would be putting it on a outside wall, cannot vent outside) or to buy the floor stand. I know there are a lot of threads out there on this, but I couldn't find anything real recent. Also, what is the best method on reducing the line out of the machine from the 8" down to a 6" (I will be using pvc). If anyone has one of these machines and would offer up any input as well it would be appreciated greatly. Thanks for looking and I really look forward to hearing from you all.

[Chris Parks]

It is not how many machines you use at once, the main factor to consider is what is the maximum air flow through 6" ducting or bigger and if using filters what is the cyclone that gives the best separation. On one hand you can have a machine that will pick up all the chips and debris or one that will also pick up a lot of the very fine or even invisible dust that wood machining creates. You cannot do the latter without very large volumes of extracted air at the necessary speed. Fine dust collection is what it is all about not large chip collection.

[David Kumm]

As Chris hinted, the short cone units underperform the longer ones at fine dust separation. If you plan on any sanding that should be a consideration. Don't pay much attention to the cfm quotes. Find out the diameter and configuration of the impeller and you will be able to compare. 1000 sq ft is a pretty good sized shop. I would go with a 3 hp 14" diameter impeller and 7" mains. If you have to go pvc you just have to accept the restriction of 6" but it is significant enough that a 15" impeller might work with a 3 hp motor but advice from the seller is necessary. You will get 800-1000 cfm from a 6" main and 1000-1200 with a 7". If you run small machines the lower cfm works but if you ever go to an 18-20" planer or a drum or belt sander you will want more. Dave

[Chris Atzinger]

I looked at the JDS machine but ultimately opted for the 3HP Oneida V-system cyclone a year ago, and I have never regretted. I am in a smallish space(roughly 20x20), so while running duct work seemed like a pain, I now see that I was never going to be able to move the mobile unit around the shop and certainly wasn't dragging the flex hose around either. The Onieda doesn't have some of the features the JDS has (I am thinking of the separate motor/paddle to clean the filter), but I love mine, and would recommend it.

Good luck!
-Chris

[Kyle Tucker]

Chris A,

If I may, what model # Oneida did you go with? Also what material and size is your duct? I have been loosely looking at Oneida off and on. Review wise everyone that buys swears by them. Thanks.

[Chris Parks]

We run 15" impellers on 6" all the time and it works in a practical sense no matter what the theory is or says. It may not be ideal bit it does a damned good job and no one complains. Having said that, in Oz we have no other option apart from custom made steel ducting - ouch, talk about exxy.

[David Kumm]

Chris P. are you running 50 or 60 hz down under? I think a 15" will work with 6" at 60 hz here without burning up a 3 hp motor but it might be a close call. The extra inch is worth an inch or two on the SP curve so it is pretty significant with smaller pipe. Dave

[Kyle Tucker]

Chris P / David,

The impeller size on the Grizzly is 15-1/2". The JDC 2100 has a 14-1/2" impeller, the 3100 a 15-1/2". That said would one of the JDS units suffice? I have yet to purchase my pvc/duct lines as well but could go with the 7" main line...

[glenn bradley]

I have had a G0440 installed since January of 2009. It has served me well and if I could have shoe-horned the G0441 in I would have. The mufflers seem to have little effect so I would not bother if doing it again. My shop is about 600 sq ft but, my longest run is only about 30 ft due to careful layout. I went from 7" down to 6" within the first 2 feet of the inlet and used ADSM-2729 6" plastic pipe for ducting. The bin is ample sized for a one man shop but, can get quite heavy if allowed to fill to capacity. The rollers are good quality and roll easily across the garage floor and out over small steps to the trash area outside. Some folks have reported breaking the casters but I imagine those folks could break anything ;-)

I only slip fit the pipe joints except for a couple areas that I found when testing for leaks. BTW, stick incense creates a nice consistent smoke source for leak testing. I mounted to the wall with the lower section at 180* of what is normally pictured in order to reduce the footprint. Grizzly tech support reported no change in specs with this configuration. I use dual 45* fittings instead of 90* fittings but "long 90* fittings" would be even better if you have the room. I built in 2 cleanout points in the ducting but, have never had to use them. If I pull the cap and look into the ducting it is shiny-clean. I run a tablesaw upper/lower, planer, bandsaws, sanders, etc. all with good success.

[David Kumm]

Get the larger unit and check the motors. The DC motor runs hard so a good quality motor is important. The separation is important so as not to clog the filters. The less you clean them the better. If you are not sanding the JDS will be fine although they are not the best bang for the buck as I recall. The 7" spiral is the way to go IMO. Dave

[Chris Parks]

David we run at 60hz through a VFD from 50hz single phase. Using the VFD makes for a very flexible option in the way the cyclone can be operated and I would recommend it to anyone. Soft start, delayed shutdown to scrub the air etc, operating speed can be changed also. In my experience anyone who buys a cyclone should buy three phase and use a VFD. 99% of installs in Oz use a VFD at 220V, in fact we do not sell a single phase motor at all.

Using filters I would simply go for the best separation, end of story.

[David Kumm]

Chris, i agree and run from a vfd as well to dial in the maximum cfm. We haven't talked filters but the three main choices are spun bond, nanofiber, and hepa like from Oneida. I use nano and prefer them to spun bond but don't have experience with the Oneida filters. The nano are surface loading and dust cleans off easily. Dave

[Michael W. Clark]

Using filters I would simply go for the best separation, end of story.

I agree and would like to add that the CFM vs. filter area (Air:Cloth) ratio should also be considered. With a cyclone getting all the heavies, a 3:1 ratio or less is preferred (not really a ratio, but everyone calls it that)

You will have lower pressrue drop across the filters and the fileters will require even less cleaning. Also, because the air velocity is lower, the cleaning process will be more effective since dust particles are not lodged deeper into the filter. Net result; more airflow at the machine, more dust brought into the system, and cleaner ambient air.

Mike

[David Kumm]

Michael makes a great point. Almost all systems could use more filter area. Oneida sells several units that are almost the same except for filter size. More is better. Dave

[Erik Christensen]

everything you ever need or want to know about dust collection can be found on Bill Pentz's web pages - I put in a ClearVue system with 6" pvc pipe 4 years ago and it has performed beyond expectations ever since