what went wrong

[Bob Mantica]

I'm in the process of finishing an entertainment center which i stained with general finishes dark
brown water based dye. the finish is oil based poly that i am wiping on. I noticed that as I was applying the poly the rag I was using was becoming brown. after several coats I could see that some spots were considerably lighter than when I started. Could someone explain what happened.I'm guessing I should have put a coat of shellac before I started putting on the poly, but I have used the same stain on another project with no problems

[glenn bradley]

Dyes generally need to be sealed over before many topcoats are applied. The carrier in the topcoat can thin and lift the dye. Zinsser's Seal Coat dewaxed clear shellac is a favorite of mine but, it is alcohol based so it too can lift your color. I don't have much trouble with it lifting Transtint dyes but, there is some effect.

[Bob Mantica]

wouldn't the first coat of poly act as a seal coat

[Scott Holmes]

Wipe-on coat would not completely seal the wood. Plus any dye moved by the wipe-on coat couls still be "on top".

A spray coat of dewaxed shellac is best. Brushing it on will move the dye more than the poly.

Another method is to use a water (only) soluble dye e.g. TransFast powered dyes. Then you can brush or spray the seal coat.

[Bob Mantica]

I'm a bit confused I thought what I was using the same as powdered dye except that it was already dissolved. what is the diference?

[sheldon pettit]

I'm a bit confused I thought what I was using the same as powdered dye except that it was already dissolved. what is the diference?

Hi Bob, A water only soluble dye powder is just that, it will not dissolve in anything else. It can be miscable with glycols to a small degree, such as Behlen's solar lux stains, but is not directly solved by such. If your picking up color when applying anything but a water based coating, then your not using a mono-soluble dye. The multi-soluble liquid dyes that are on the market of the metal complex type like transtints / nerosolves/ and others, also can be picked up by many types of solvent coatings but usally not aliphatic hydrocarbons like mineral spirits or napthas, unless they are not completely dry. So it is possible that the product may have appeared dry surface wise, but still not thoroughly dry. If it was allowed over-night to dry in good weather and still lifted, then there is a chance you applied and did not wipe off the surface dye thoroughly enough and were picking up excess dye laying on the surface, but only you would know if this is the case or not. Also keep in mind it's always better to use a pure dye and not have binders like acrylic which what your using has which would stop the penetration of all the dye into the wood. I would follow Scott's advice and use the transfast powder instead ok?

Sam / Chemmy

[Kent A Bathurst]

I'm a bit confused I thought what I was using the same as powdered dye except that it was already dissolved. what is the diference?

From what I understand, you are correct - sort of. The transtint is a dissolved equivalent to the transfast. The question is "dissolved with what?" And - I don't have that answer - I used to know [I think] but I forgot, if I did. I do know that it is not simply water. And that affects the "lift" properties.

I use padding cloth to apply my shellac seal coats [in the 3/4# - 1# range]. Transtint will lift much, much more than Transfast. ~24 hours dry time, and there is very little lift on the Transfast - not zero, but darn near it. I quit using Transtint for most applications, and only use the Transfast.