Newbie looking to purchase CNC router

[james mcgrew]

if the iq is an option, then a goood look at a stinger is a must

[Ernie Martinez]

I've looked at the stinger, and I like what I see, but by the time I add all the options to make it equivalent to the IQ, its over $2000 more expensive.

[Jim Underwood]

For the better support, it might be worth it. Not much good to have a cheaper machine that you can't do anything with... The company I work for pays nearly that much per year for support for just ONE software package... just sayin...

[james mcgrew]

There is a very good reason for that,, just join and ask the owners

www.camheads.org

[Ernie Martinez]

I appreciate everyones opinions, but what I'm not getting is facts. I've been reading this forum and the camheads forums for days now. The Camaster folks seem to be very knowledgeable about their machines but seem to have blinders on with respect to the other brands. I've had a few people mention customer support issues, but on a different forum I saw several examples of excellent service.

What would be more helpful to me would be less Chevy vs Ford comparisons and more along the lines of side by side feature comparisons to back up the claims made that Laguna is inferior and Camaster superior.

My side by side comparison has the Laguna ahead in all respects from a value perspective e.g.

Standard Laguna features
Water cooled Spindel vs Router
100 lbs heavier solid welded frame
auto zero touch pad
Ball screws on 3 axis
Dedicated Controller vs MS Windows based software ( this may not be that important) But I like the idea of no computer in shop room, and all the baggage associated with Windows. (I'm an EE/software engineer for over 30 years). And I'm not too concerned about the Austrian controller manufacturer going out of business

http://www.br-automation.com/cps/rde...9_ENG_HTML.htm

If I go to the Camaster website I can't even get a simple explanation of the accessories. There is precious little information to go on.

I've had several people respond with opinions and China bashing, but nothing that helps me make a decision. The only thing that I've been able to conclude is that Camaster people are passionate about their machines. I really dont care if a solid hunk of Steel comes from China, Laguna claims they are assembled and tested here in the US thats all fine with me. Sure I'd love to buy a 100% made in USA machine , I bought an Epilog Laser over a Trotec partly because of that. But at the end of the day, value wins out, and so far no one has given me any reason to think that the Camaster provides more value. I'm not trying to trash Camaster, I'm sure its a great machine, but I need more than Laguna is Chinese junk and a Stinger is better.

I don't see many forums with people posting their issues with the Laguna machines, but that just means to me the following:

1. No one owns Laguna CNC machines
2. People don't really have many problems which negate the need for a forum
3. Laguna does a good job of supporting their machines off line.

I've come across another thread where another newbie asked basically the same question and he seemed to have come to the same conclusion as I did, whereas the experts on the forum weren't even aware of the current Laguna IQ product. Rather, the thread descended into a flame session, filled with everything but information to help the newbie.

If anyone has ANY real world experience with the Laguna IQ HHC or Pro, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

[Keith Outten]

Ernie,

Your right, there is little information available about the Laguna IQ Pro machine here. Laguna has not been promoting this machine as far as I know but it may be an excellent value. I did discuss this very machine with a Laguna Rep at IWF and suggested that they offer a promotion for this very model here at The Creek, stand by for more information

I doubt you will find anyone who has owned both a CAMaster and a Laguna CNC Machine that could provide hands on information. As always you have to weed through the comments from different camps to determine for yourself which machine will suit your needs but all of the current manufacturers are offering some nice models. The brand fans are always quick to yell about how much they love their machines, I'm a bit guilty of that myself. I have owned a ShopBot and a CAMaster, both were excellent values however these days I have learned how valuable the welded frames are to the machine performance.
.

[Bob Reda]

Your thoughts on not needing a forum is not adequate. A forum is a valuable tool, no matter which one you chose. If you are not familiar with cnc machines the learning curve, even with todays software is a nice climb. There are always problems that arise after the purchase. These problems are always while in the middle of a job and on weekends. With the forum, you always have a chance to get an answer.. You will also be surprised about how much you learn about your machine thorugh the forums. So i would put a support forum up there in my list of have to haves before I buy a $20.000 machine.

Bob

[james mcgrew]

there is one or two that have gone from the chinese to the camaster, i looked extensivly at the 1390 and by some form of intervention a used camaster came up and this is where i went,, kieth is right most any one is still pretty amazed we can run these things and are very brand loyal,, the IQ is an updated model of the chinese 60-90 and it will work,, the main items of note between the two is this,,

IQ Mach three controler----- camaster- wincnc , wincnc is an indrustrial controller with a dughter board and is not dependant on the computers motherboard,,,,, this means a tech from camaster can get on your screen while your machine is running and diagnose, teach or you can design whil machine is running,, you cannot do this with Mach 3,, mach three is stuck in 32 bit,, as time goes on and all computers go to 64 you will have to keep 32 bit motherboards around.

frame,, the camaster frame is stress welded relived and cnc ground flat at the table, the iq is good enough but i prefer my Harley over a honda, which the harley and is build are what i think of when i look at my camaster.

spindles, the iq uses a watercooled spindle, reason the bearings are not as heat tolerant as an italian spindle wiht ceramic bearings, you can put far stronger spindles on a camaster, if needed,, with the watercooled you gotta be aware of the fishtank pump.

the iq wll work,, so will the camaster,,,, and there are plenty of MACH three owners here,,, so heres a good litmus test, today i want you to go to the mach three website and call support, you will not only find they do not talk on the phone but that the chinese versions of mach three are bootleg

there is a long learning curve for some this is both software and machine, throw all woodworking terms out the window, a whole new language awaits,,, this is the value in a good machine+good support, (es i am biased, i am a commercial end user, time is money here) the coupling of suport for machine and software and support have lead to an awful lot of satisfied camhead stinger or camaster owners..

[Ernie Martinez]

Bob, I didn't say that I didn't need a forum. I am a member of the Engravers forum and it is an invaluable resource for me.

[Keith Outten]

I'm a big fan of Forums myself

I also belong to the Engravers Forum.

Wincnc is good stuff.
.

[Ariel Echevarria]

I am in the same boat looking for a router. I like the Newing Hall 240 because its a good starting CNC router from what I can see. The sales rep sent me a quote of Approx 8-9k Im trying to negotiate all angles, Sawmill creek member, military vet, just trying to see if they will offer any kind of discount.

[Mike Null]

Ariel

What are you wanting to do with the Newing Hall? It may not be the machine you need. There is no way this should be called a router. It is an engraver. If you have that much to spend you would be well served to look for a used laser engraver first.

Given your experience and what you want to do my guess is that this may be a machine to consider after you have established your business but not as a start-up machine.

If you have questions PM me and I'll give you my phone number.

[james mcgrew]

this is an excellent engraver, yet if you wanted to do 3d carvings or woodwork along the lines of what is commonly shown in the gallerys with a cnc machine then you may want to look a bit larger, most all table top cnc machines will do engraving as well

[Ariel Echevarria]

Yes its an engraver I was multi tasking when I was writing that post and looking up CNC routers and Engraving machines. Word mix up. So what I am looking for is something that I can make ADA signs, Name plates, etc.

[Mark Sipes]

So Ariel what did you end up purchasing?