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Thread: Trotec Speedy 300 Pricing: Trade Show vs. Sawmill Creek Pricing

  1. #16
    My experience in buying my first laser, a ULS which I had made up my mind to buy, wasn't much different. I had to drive to Chicago to make the purchase as there was no ULS rep in St. Louis and the factory sales mgr. was useless.

    When I decided to buy a second machine I looked at the features very carefully of all machines and requested quotes. ULS not only didn't have a rep in St. Louis but they didn't have a rep that I could contact in this hemisphere so I contacted the factory again. Their quote was well above anything I had received from the other two. Epilog has a very attentive rep in the Missouri market and he was all over the rfq. Trotec responded with the Missouri rep and he arranged for me to see a couple of machines in operation in local shops.

    At the time Trotec was fairly new to the US and just getting started. Their quote was higher than Epilog but lower than ULS. This was more than 6 years ago and machines were much higher priced at that time. I had made up my mind that the Trotec was the machine I wanted even with the price and I was unable to negotiate anything lower. In the meantime Epilog's rep advised that the factory (he gave me the name of an executive) wanted the order and he was going to lower my price a lot--they were already the lowest. Still, in one of my better decisions, I chose Trotec, as I believed it to be a superior machine. ( I also looked at Xenetech but quickly determined I wanted nothing to do with that brand.)

    Given the performance of my Trotec and the outstanding tech support in using the many features of the machine and software I would buy another without considering other brands. (mine is in it's 7th year with zero downtime and zero parts replacement)
    Last edited by Mike Null; 10-07-2012 at 9:09 AM.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  2. #17
    I don't think this thread is about one brand vs another, it's about how the industry sells their machines. With no list price and "special" pricing, it has created an atmosphere where people are afraid to post on the internet what kind of pricing they get and it allows the manufacturers and salesmen to "exploit" the consumer. I'm not saying this is unique to Trotec either. All of the laser manufacturers play this game.

    There is no reason why at a trade show a price should be around $6000 difference. The reason they do it that way is because they know they are surrounded by competition and want to put their best foot forward. Don't be afraid to go over a salesman's head to get the best price. We're talking about $6000 here. That's not a small chunk of change. That buys an equivalent Chinese laser.
    Last edited by Ross Moshinsky; 10-07-2012 at 9:32 AM.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Maple, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,010
    As already stated in another thread I purchased Trotec Speedy300 from Trotec Canada a div. of Trodat Marking Canada. Communication between Jon (member here on SMC) and me started long ago. There is no unanswered questions or not returned calls.

    I put wheels in motion after attending "Consac" sign trade show in Toronto. All major grands had their laser on exhibition floor.
    I really wanted Speedy 300 but to be sure I requested a quote from second on shopping list PLS6.75 from ULS. The quotes I received were substantially lower the PA trade show posted on top of this thread with exact same features. Why, don't know maybe due to the strength of Canadian dollar ......but i'll take it.
    Trotec Speedy 300 - 60w, with Quatro CSA-626 fume extraction
    Xenetech 1625 x2,
    New Hermes TX pantograph, CG4 cutter grinder
    Brady Globalmark2 label printer,
    Assortment of custom tooling , shears & punches, heat bender.
    Software: Xenetech XOT, Corel X3, Bartender label software

  4. #19

    I just purchased an engraver. I did my research and narrowed it down to either a ULS
    or Epilog. I contacted both companies. The local Epilog representative answered
    every email promptly, he answered every question and we also talked about the
    pitfalls and benefits of starting a Laser based business... The guy is great!
    After talking with him over 6 months I decided that my best deal was with a
    factory reconditioned unit straight from Epilog (saved about $6k)... I felt bad
    that the salesman didn't pick up a commission on a new sale... however I
    couldn't justify the extra $6k because he is a nice guy...

    The salesman's willingness to help, promptness, answers to a myriad of
    questions along with Epilogs reputation for support made up my mind to buy that
    brand. I am sure ULS is a great machine but the local Reps were very slow
    getting back to me, even then they lacked a follow-up which made my decision
    easier...


    Epilog Helix 60w
    Epilog Mini 18 30W
    Purex Xbase 200
    CorelDRAW X7
    Wood Carver

  5. #20
    Everyone who buys a laser will have a story to tell about the experience. So far, this is my story. I'm very hopeful that the ending to the story will be a positive one and that others will benefit from the sharing. I also encourage others to share their experiences, good and bad. The manufacturers may have no idea they have areas that are deficient and need improvement. Likewise, they may not realize they have some outstanding sales reps who deserve all the praise in the world for how they represent the products they sell.

    I'm hoping this thread will help bring attention to the wide discrepency with pricing and help others to realize the deals available. I'm also hoping this thread shows an opportunity for companies to stop barring customers at the door with poor pricing practices. Don't segregate your customers who can't attend a trade show. Offer the same deal to all customers even if limited to those time periods.

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

  6. #21
    I don't have an issue with it being posted, but I do take issue with Trotec as being painted as someone that's doing something that every other manufacturer does as well. I can assure you, we paid a lot more for our Epilog than others did, and we paid less for our ULS than others did.

    It's not Trotec, it's ALL of the big manufacturers that have sales reps. If you were a sales rep, you'd be trying to get all you could too. That's how they make their living. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. If you aren't happy with the price, don't buy it.

    Like I said, this has been happening in trade shows since trade shows started. It's not unique to the laser world.

    We bought a plotter. Price before the show was $3500. Show price was $2700. We asked if we could get the show price without going to show. Nope. Had to go to the show.

    We are looking at large format printers. Asking price is $25,500. I've seen people negotiating them down to the $12,995 area. If I hadn't known that, we'd be planning to spend about $20,000 on one.

    In all fairness, to balance this out, we'd need show pricing from Epilog and Universal.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Suwanee, GA
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    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    You wanted a Ferrari, but Kia called you back first and had the nice salesperson, so you bought a Kia?
    That's an apples and oranges comparison and you know it. If Trotec was the only laser that could do the job I wanted then your comparison is realistic, but, let's face it, they are really all doing the same job with a few minor differences. That's not true for Ferrari and Kia.

    I know exactly what I want out of my next laser - large bed, pass through doors, air assist, plunger type auto focus, GCC style rotary, no glass tube. If I email to the various manufacturers and they don't bother to reply then I might call them if I'm pretty sure they have what I am looking for. If that doesn't result in some sort of dialogue then I'm done with that manufacturer. With the economy the way it is I can't see anyone losing a sale simply by not replying to a phone call or email.

    Gary

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hair View Post
    That's an apples and oranges comparison and you know it. If Trotec was the only laser that could do the job I wanted then your comparison is realistic, but, let's face it, they are really all doing the same job with a few minor differences. That's not true for Ferrari and Kia.
    If you think Epilog and Trotec are the same, you're in need of an education on the differences. The two aren't in the same league and the differences are anything but "minor" in the world of production.

    Given the same jobs in a product environment, the two aren't even in the same class, hence the reference. Just because you don't think there is a real difference doesn't mean there isn't a real difference.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    I don't have an issue with it being posted, but I do take issue with Trotec as being painted as someone that's doing something that every other manufacturer does as well. I can assure you, we paid a lot more for our Epilog than others did, and we paid less for our ULS than others did.

    It's not Trotec, it's ALL of the big manufacturers that have sales reps. If you were a sales rep, you'd be trying to get all you could too. That's how they make their living. No one's forcing anyone to buy anything. If you aren't happy with the price, don't buy it.

    Like I said, this has been happening in trade shows since trade shows started. It's not unique to the laser world.

    We bought a plotter. Price before the show was $3500. Show price was $2700. We asked if we could get the show price without going to show. Nope. Had to go to the show.

    We are looking at large format printers. Asking price is $25,500. I've seen people negotiating them down to the $12,995 area. If I hadn't known that, we'd be planning to spend about $20,000 on one.

    In all fairness, to balance this out, we'd need show pricing from Epilog and Universal.
    The only reason I started the thread was to specifically point out the Sawmill Creek pricing I received from Trotec and directly compare it to the show pricing that Trotec was offering to all its customers. I absolutely LOVE that Trotec is willing to partner with Sawmill Creek to offer discount pricing just because it wants to support Sawmill Creek. However, if you search through the 13411 threads JUST in the engraving section, there is only 1 post that actually shares the pricing information from Trotec, and even then it's only non-show pricing.

    So part of my intent is to actually be open and transparent about the Sawmill Creek pricing I received when I contacted Amie. Keep in mind that Amie didn't actually provide the price quote. She contacted my local rep who then provided the pricing you see above. However, it was represented to me that the pricing I received is "special" and only applies because I am a member of Sawmill Creek. I welcome other members to share the pricing they've received. This is only MY experience, thus far.

    I have absolutely no ill-will towards Trotec or my sales rep. and I am not "painting" them in any way. They are the one company that I have been actively dealing with to purchase a laser. I am merely presenting the facts and I'm trying to remain unbiased with their presentation. I ask other members to also please not impart emotion into the discussion. Be fair, be honest. We all benefit if manufacturers take note and examine their pricing practices. Just because "everyone" does it doesn't make it right. It's a perfect opportunity for a company, any company, to say "It doesn't matter than you're not here at the show, I still want you as a customer".

    The way my experience has worked out thus far has compromised my trust in the pricing I am being offered, hence the reason I am reaching out to other members of Sawmill Creek to find out what they paid and what there experience has been. I've received many private messages from other members sharing their purchase price and I am greatly appreciative and indebted to them for sharing. For the same system that I initially requested a price quote on, I found out that I would have paid over six-thousand dollars more than other's have paid just by attending a trade show. To me, that's a big deal. What's more ironic is that had I received the show pricing in the first place, I would probably have stretched my budget and purchased the Speedy 300 with an 80w rather than dismissing the machine and focusing on the smaller, less expensive Speedy 100 with 40w.

    As it is the weekend, neither Amie nor my sales rep has had a chance to respond and I don't believe the story to be over by any means. As I stated in the first post, I HAVE received another offer from my regional Trotec sales rep, but I was specifically asked not to publish the information. I will respect their wishes and not publish the modified price quote. However, it was after I received this quote that I found out how outrageous the first quotes were compared to show pricing. It's because of the first quote pricing that I am doubting the second quote, especially if I can do better just by going to a trade show.

    I absolutely agree that this thread would be more valuable if we had show pricing from both Epilog and Universal. Steve, will you be attending the Las Vegas show and be willing to forward any pricing information you receive?

    As I do not have Epilog show pricing so all I can publish is the initial price sheet I received from my dealer in MN. I believe these are "list" prices because my dealer did show a willingness to "make a deal", though it hasn't progressed to beyond trading a few emails:

    Epilog Pricing.jpg


    "The first rule of Laser Price Club is: You do not talk about Laser Price Club".

  10. #25
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    Suwanee, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd View Post
    If you think Epilog and Trotec are the same, you're in need of an education on the differences.
    Educate me - don't just state "faster", "better", etc., without supporting facts (numbers, measurements, times, etc.) otherwise you are just stating opinions, and we all know the analogy about opinions and a certain part of the anatomy...

    Just to be clear - I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm truly interested in real world facts. My next purchase will be based on the info I gather between now and then and I would appreciate your input.

    Gary

  11. #26
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    Hayes, Virginia
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    I thought that show prices were only offered for the machines that were at the show. The discounts offered at a show reflect the fact that you are responsible to remove the machine after the show and the vendor doesn't have to deal with the cost of shipping the machine back to their office or warehouse. Since they normally run the machines at a show they are used machines, the second half of the discount.

    Now, you have to realize that selling laser engravers isn't the same as table saws. Given what they cost and a lower number of potential customers laser engravers are not stacked up in a warehouse very often. The sales representatives don't sell many machines in a week so there are not many reps on the payroll. In the case of Trotec my sales rep spent two days in my shop when my machine arrived, that is a lot of time for a person whose territory covers several states. Patience is required when you decide you want a new laser engraver folks, you have to wait your turn to be served.

    Gary, you want metrics concerning Trotec machines. Lets start with a thorough inspection of what you can and can't see when you open the lid and look inside. Right away you will notice a huge difference.....take a look for yourself. If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering. Hint number one, can you see any belts?

    I started with an Epilog, then a Xenetech, then a Chinese machine and now a Trotec Speedy 300. The difference in these machines are as big a stretch as the Ferrari and the Kia.

    I agree with Steve that you shouldn't settle on a machine just because the salesman is prompt returning your call. Maybe he isn't busy because his machines aren't selling. Maybe the company that is more difficult to communicate with is busy selling machines and you just have to stand in line to buy a superior machine. In any event a business machine that you will rely on to pay your bills and feed your family deserves serious consideration.

    IMO most of the manufacturers offer models that are good machines, some have models that you would not want to purchase among the good machines they offer. You can look in this Forum and identify the models that are lemons and find out where they came from so you can cross them off your list.

    If you want to purchase a Trotec call Amie McGee. If she is at a trade show you might have to wait a couple days so be patient and make sure Amie provides you a price before she connects you to your local sales rep.
    .
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 10-07-2012 at 6:02 PM.

  12. #27
    Knowing what I think I know. :-) That Trotec is the best laser out there. If they would only offer honest and open pricing, they could blow the other two out of the water. But unfortunatly it ain't gonna happen.

    Tami
    sandcarving and sublimation.
    Trotec Speedy 300/80 watt!

  13. #28
    The definition of "show pricing" that I am using is the price that someone pays when they place an order at the show for a new machine. They may offer additional discounts on the floor models they are using at the show, but that is not what I am referring to in this case.

    You've got no argument from me that the Trotec machines are a superior design. That's what attracted me to them in the first place. Prior to reading about them on Sawmill Creek, I didn't even know they existed. When you google "laser engraver", Trotec doesn't even come up on the first page of hits (unless they happen to pop up under the "ads" section). Most of the information I have gathered regarding the quality of a Trotec has been from Sawmill Creek members. For this I thank them.

    I have yet to see a Trotec laser in person and yet I STILL want to buy one. I just have to get past this pricing snafu first. Had the Sawmill Creek pricing I received up front matched what Trotec was offering at the trade show (instead of being 27% higher), I firmly believe I would already have a laser on order and I would not have had any need to start this thread.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    Patience is required when you decide you want a new laser engraver folks, you have to wait your turn to be served.
    Can you imagine how our customers would react to that kind of attitude? If they are that good and in that high of demand then they need to ramp up whatever part of the sales cycle is lagging and satisfy their (potential)customers. If their equipment is as amazing as you say it is, and I have no reason to doubt you, then if they coupled quality sales with their quality machine, they would literally be the only one left in business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    Gary, you want metrics concerning Trotec machines. Lets start with a thorough inspection of what you can and can't see when you open the lid and look inside. Right away you will notice a huge difference.....take a look for yourself.
    A nice looking machine full of fantastic engineering is great, but that's not "metrics" Keith, I want to see output comparisons. Not "max speed", "max power", etc., you and I both know that theoretical maximum speeds usually don't mean as much in the real world. For example, my GCC Explorer ZX has a max raster speed of 80ips and max vector speed of 40ips - I almost never use more than about 15% speed and for the bulk of my rastering (I use a lot of Cermark) and I rarely use above 10% vectoring speed (I cut a lot of acrylic and Rowmark). So it doesn't really matter if I have 40ips or 4ips when I vector or 80ips or 8ips when I raster, it's not going to affect output.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering. Hint number one, can you see any belts?
    I haven't even started looking at them, it won't be until after the first of the year before I start getting serious. I would, however, appreciate some pictures of your machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I agree with Steve that you shouldn't settle on a machine just because the salesman is prompt returning your call.
    I'm not talking about "settling" on an inferior machine, I'm talking about purchasing a machine that can accomplish the task at hand. Using your analogy - if all you did was drive your kid to school about three blocks away, would you be better off with the Kia or the Ferrari? What if you, your wife and kids needed a vehicle to get to soccer games - Ferrari or Kia? If both vehicles accomplish the task, the Ferrari rep ignores you until you have plead your request to buy their product, and the Kia rep calls back, who gets your business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    IMO most of the manufacturers offer models that are good machines, some have models that you would not want to purchase among the good machines they offer.
    My point exactly. If they all offer good machines that will do the job then I'm not about to waste my precious time "pestering" a sales rep that doesn't have the time to return my inquiry. Even though I know the sales rep doesn't do tech support when things go wrong, if they can't afford to have more reps to keep up with the demand then how can they afford techs to keep up with support? They may have a superior product but everything breaks down no matter how good they are.

    Gary

  15. #30
    I need to make an update to the following post. As I can't edit the original post past a certain time limit, I will make the corrections in a new post. I've bolded the corrections I need to make:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Erickson View Post
    When I first approached Trotec, it was via their website.I had not received any reply to my pricing inquiry (not uncommon based on other posts in the forum) so I contacted Keith on SMC to get the SMC Trotec Vendor Rep contact information (Amie McGee). I had hopes that by going through Amie I could secure reasonable pricing; high hopes in fact due to the work Keith has done to get Sawmill Creek members a discount. While Amie was very knowledgeable and a pleasure to speak with, she didn't go into pricing and instead handed me off to a local vendor rep. It's the local vendor rep who provided the price quotes attached above. In subsequest discussions with Keith, the normal process would have been to call Amie, get pricing, & order the system; working with the local vendor rep would have occurred after the order was placed.

    While I contacted Amie via voice mail the day the show started, she didn't get back to me until three days after the show (which is understandable), but didn't offer show pricing. It would have went a long way for her to have said "Here's the pricing we were offering at the show. Even though the show is over, I'd be happy to sell you a system at those prices." (By the way, I did send her both her and my local rep an email to give them a chance to respond.)

    I can certainly understand why people don't want to discuss pricing. No one wants to feel like they've paid too much, and no one wants others to feel bad because others didn't get as good of a price. My purpose in posting is to share the information so that others don't ever feel like they are getting taken. In my case, it would have been to the tune of $6000 had my budget been willing to spend that much.

    What's unfortunate is that the people who can't attend a show won't necessarily have the opportunity to pay the show pricing.
    I just discovered that I am in error with part of this posting. When I submitted my price quote request online, I had listed my cell phone number and put notes in the comments section to receive the price quote via email. As I was expecting an email (and not a phone call) I didn't have my cell phone turned on.

    My local Trotec rep DID in fact try to contact me via my cell phone the very next day. I so rarely use my cell phone that I had it off until this evening (10/7). That's when I discovered the voice message from my local Trotec rep when he called 9/17 in response to my price request on 9/16.

    I was in error and I feel bad about my mistake. I make this apology not because Trotec has asked me to, but because I have discovered my error and it is the right thing to do.

    I apologize to Trotec and the Trotec rep for the mistake I have made about my Trotec reps initial lack of contacting me. I was in error assuming I would only receive contact via email and I made this particular statement based upon the initial lack of email contact.

    The positive spin is I requested information from Trotec on 9/16 (Sunday) and had a Trotec rep call me the very next day!

    It may also explain why Amie handed me off to my local Trotec rep rather than discussing pricing on the initial phone call with Amie. If the local Trotec rep had already initiated the sales callback 9/17 (without my knowing it), it makes sense for her to allow the sale to progress through the local sales rep rather than making the quote herself. It will be interesting to speak with Amie to confirm my suspicions.
    Last edited by Ronald Erickson; 10-07-2012 at 10:18 PM. Reason: If at first you can't spell, edit edit again

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