Trotec Speedy 300 Pricing: Trade Show vs. Sawmill Creek Pricing

[Mike Null]

Rules regarding show specials vary by company. Some offer specials during shows only on whatever is purchased there. Others offer specials on demo models. Some offer special pricing during shows whether or not you can attend.

Pricing is always negotiated on ULS, Epilog and Trotec just as if they were automobiles.

[Scott Shepherd]

A nice looking machine full of fantastic engineering is great, but that's not "metrics" Keith, I want to see output comparisons. Not "max speed", "max power", etc., you and I both know that theoretical maximum speeds usually don't mean as much in the real world.

Gary, us saying it isn't going to convince you. Keith and I have both posted differences in times compared to our other machines. I don't recall the exact numbers off the top of my head, but I did a granite tile that would normally have taken 40-50 minutes in something like 12 minutes. To me, that's about as real world as you can get.

Here's a clip of that tile. I know the tile looks blown out, but I tweaked the color down so it wasn't blown out and the customer said he didn't like it and wanted it back like the photo was (which was blown out)....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8voX7...re=context-cha

I have many, many real world examples of how much more productive this machine is, which to us, means more profitable.


Here's how's part of the motion system is built. Note how fat the belts are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrrXxzk84QE&feature=plcp

I have said this a number of times and I'll say it again. If you're vector cutting, it moves so fast, you honestly can't see it move. I've video taped it a number of times and even watching on video, you can't see it move from place to place if it's under a few inches of travel.

I also agree, you need to pick the machine that fits your business. I would never recommend a laser to someone without spending at least 30-60 minutes talking to them to fully understand what they plan to use it for. A Chinese last might be the right tool for some, while the Trotec might be the right tool for others.

[Keith Outten]

Last January we received our new Speedy 300 75 watt laser at Christopher Newport University. We decided that because we had three very large new buildings under construction and had to fabricate 850 ADA door signs and over 400 specialty signs in just seven months we needed a second machine to meet the schedule.

We ran the Trotec and our 60 watt Xenetech concurrently for the first month. We found out the we didn't need to use the Xenetech, the Trotec was so fast it kept up with our production all by itself. After seven months we were ahead of schedule, the Xenetech hasn't been turned on since last February which suits me fine.

Xenetech 60 watt averages 12 minutes per door sign to engrave.
Trotec 75 watt averages 4 minutes per door sign to engrave.
The large power supply is a big deal, add to that the engraving acceleration speed.

All of the engraving work was done on Dupont Corian plastic to a depth of 0.034".

Seven months of production work is more scientific than metrics from just one job. We probably did about $200,000.00 in sign work.

I was so impressed with the Trotec Laser at CNU I ordered a Speedy 300 80 watt machine for my sign shop at home.
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[Ronald Erickson]

<snip> If you can't find a Trotec in your area I would be glad to post some pictures and point out some features that are nothing short of first class engineering.
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Hey Keith, I'd be very interested in you posting pictures of your Speedy 300. Finding detailed pictures online is a bit difficult. Maybe a "Speedy 300 Pictures" thread could be started so others who have (or will be receiving) Speedy 300's could contribute?

I was talking to my father today and he was very excited to learn about the construction of the lasers I'm interested in. He is a retired Hardinge CNC systems tech (think CNC equipment with accuracy in the five-millionths of an inch) and he used to repair 3M's multi-thousand watt lasers. His questions to me were "How wide are the belts, who makes the servo motors, etc.". (I knew the belts were 1 inch but I had no idea who made the motors. He was guessing with German engineering they would be Siemens and said they were a good brand.)

I have a feeling that when I buy a laser he'll want to tear it apart and put it back together... just for fun.

[Keith Outten]

I will take some pictures right after dinner this evening.

[TAMI WILSON]

Seems to me that if Trotec would just advertise a fair price and stop all the "Used car salesman games" they could blow the competition out of the water.

Tami

[Jiten Patel]

Anyone got any thoughts on the new Speedy 400? Thinking about getting this or a Chinese one - tough choice really considering the massive price difference (1 machine vs 5 for the same price!).

[Rodne Gold]

I think it depends on your application..if you were cutting 6mm acrylic all day , I would buy chinese , if you are looking for delicate and complex thin card cutting at high speed , I don't think the chinese machines , configured as they are right now , will do.

[Jiten Patel]

Rodne, I completely hear you. We are having the same debate. The thing is, we want the big machine we get to mainly do other things as our galvo takes care of the delicate paper stuff. Want to be able to engrave and cut Acrylics, woods etc but still achieving similar details for the 2nd stage of our business. Love the speedy 300 when we used one but the bed size is simply too small. The 500 is great, but we know someone who has one and doesn't sing it's praises. The 400 is perfect, but is coming in at around £30k .

[Rodne Gold]

Why don't you get a 300 for the delicate stuff and then buy a larger format cheap machine for the "dog work " and big items, use the price difference tween the 300 and 400 to get the cheapy. 2 for 1..sort off ?

We basically analysed the major thrust of the work we do or intend to do and found that about 95% of all our jobs can fit into a smaller machine .. even multiples (im not keen on running huge sheets with 100's of items , as any glitch can cost you a lot of time and money - I would rather split a big job up)
We found a size like 600 x 400 was more than adequate for just about everything..

There might have been one or 2 occasions where I have lost a job due to the size , but for me its not anywhere near worth spending the extra on a huge machine to cover those. If I look at the honeycomb of our large format 1200 x 800 chinese laser - we see that most of the real estate was a waste....

My situation is different , labour here is relatively cheap and i got space ..so having 2 or 3 ppl loading , operating and unloading lets say , 5 slower machines is not a problem ... for a single owner or a small shop with few employees and space limitation , running 5 machines that take the place of one faster one might be more of a problem.

As to pricing , I'm not sure why everything has to be so secretive and it seems somewhat arbitary as to what one user pays over and above another..I know if I found out that someone got the same machine as me at a 25% discount , I would have a sour taste in my mouth...I think the whole sales structure might be to unwieldy in these modern times..who knows..

[Jiten Patel]

Space is an issue and we do not have the manpower as you do, so the speedy may be a viable option. The new business venture will use the real estate often. We do 900x600 pieces all the time (out-sourced at the moment) but with what we have planned, we will be doing a lot more. The 300 is great, and I am sure I can get one for a good price, but the limitation in size would mean we wouldn't have creative freedom and would still need to outsource, something we want to avoid. Having the right machine in-house means I can go from design concept to finished product in a day, rather than design, post to laser guy, he cuts, sends back and we find something doesn't look right - repeat process.

I think the application is key here - most folks with lasers use them for production like yourself (correct me if I am wrong). Jobs come in and are priced and fulfilled with very little off-the-shelf type products. We would be doing to opposite and creating an off-the-shelf line for sale in addition to doing one-offs and custom work.

Pricing is a little annoying and I agree, not really sure why folks are so secretive. I will tell anyone who asks how much we paid as it may help them when buying theirs. They should have a fixed priced system, with maybe a few freebies thrown in to sweeten the deal such as free air assist or rotary. It would make life a lot simpler for people buying and probably a lot easier for the manufacturer When we purchased our galvo, we negotiated, and re-negotiated hard. We ended up with £10k knocked off the price which was a huge saving.

[john banks]

Can say a Trotec Speedy 300 80W engrave fine detail at its highest resolution at full power and speed without loss of quality?

Is there ever any reason to slow down for fine detail or for tube response time for a high speed/power combination? If not, I'm sure it is an exciting machine for rastering, just we don't do much rastering and lots of cutting, but that is perhaps because it plays to the strengths of our machine. If expanding and we had a lot of rastering work a Speedy might go well with our Chinese cutter.

[Scott Shepherd]

Can say a Trotec Speedy 300 80W engrave fine detail at its highest resolution at full power and speed without loss of quality?

Is there ever any reason to slow down for fine detail or for tube response time for a high speed/power combination? If not, I'm sure it is an exciting machine for rastering, just we don't do much rastering and lots of cutting, but that is perhaps because it plays to the strengths of our machine. If expanding and we had a lot of rastering work a Speedy might go well with our Chinese cutter.

I've never seen a loss in quality at 100% speed on any of our lasers, Universal or Trotec. Our ULS runs 100% speed on 6 pt. fonts all the time. Trotec quality is very sharp, even at full speed.

[Keith Outten]

Here are a few pictures of my 80 watt Speedy 300.
Notice in the engraving table area how everything is covered, the belts and linear movement components are protected from the dust and smoke. The air line is the only component that is visible on thr back side of the carriage.

[Keith Outten]

On the right side of the cabinet you can see the air compressor which is completely silent.