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Thread: Electrical upgrade to shop (or to house, or to house and shop.....)

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Beaverton, OR
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Neeley View Post
    It must be Oregon-specific. Both 5the 2008 & 20011 NEC, in Exhibit 210.10, show examples of garage locations requiring GFCI. The examples they give are wall receptacles, work benches, freezer and garage door opener (and its receptacle is on the roof).
    Quite right, you motivated me to go find the Oregon adoption of the NEC and the exception to 210.8(A)(2) in the bold print is:

    (2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
    Exception No. 1 to (2): A single receptacle for each appliance within a dedicated space that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another, that is cord-and-plug connected, and the receptacle is labeled as “not GFCI protected.”
    Exception No. 2 to (2): Receptacle ground fault protection shall not be required for a dedicated branch circuit serving a single receptacle for sewage or sump pumps. Receptacles installed under the exceptions to 210.8(A)(2) shall not be considered as meeting the requirements of 210.52(G).
    We also had an exception that got us out of AFC's in the house till July of this year, but even now it is required only for new circuits whereas the NEC 2011 requires them to be added to any altered circuit that meets the requirement. So even with a single state's adaption of the NEC the rules can change throughout the year. You absolutely must know how your jurisdiction adopted the NEC (and which version), though in Oregon the adoptions are generally to relax requirements so wiring to the NEC would have you covered in most circumstances.

    Also a reminder to everyone that NEC code is the bare minimum standard to help prevent fires and killing people. It sure doesn't hurt to go above and beyond where it makes sense to do so.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
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    2,253
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Portland View Post
    What's the current subpanel for (looks like random things around the house)? I was in a similar position and replaced everything. I'd run the new service (as big as you can get) through conduit to a new combined panel. Run a line to your shop sub panel from the house.
    Im not planning multiple meters.

    The second panel is just more house stuff. And if you look at either of them, you see a lot of tandems. I think the existing 100A at the house is marginal, so Im just going to pull wire big enough to upgrade. Ideally I can just hook the new wire into the existing input to the house, and leave all these panels for a future project. This means I dont have to touch the existing house stuff which will save time.

    Then move the meter to the shop - bring 200A into the shop, and drop a 200A line to the house (which for now, will still only be a 100A box but up gradable to 200A when desired.

    I like the idea of not touching the house if I can get approval for this approach. Once I touch it - its a can of worms and kinda means blowing it all up and redoing ($$$).

    Once I get to the shop - then I can wire the internal building and have no impact on the house.

    Couple questions: What type of connection at the shop? I bring the service line into a main panel - then drop the house off this via a breaker?

    Then back at the house - how do I connect between 4/0 Al and the existing 100A main? (currently there is a meter that will be removed as well).

    For the new wiring in the shop - I will just go with the GFI breakers. Cant be a bad thing at all.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    1,584
    One thing you need to check before you start is can you get a 200 amp panel that will support an additional 200 amp breaker on the bus. Additionally, is there room to bend the 4/0 wire to get it onto the breaker to feed the house? These might be deal breakers or you may have to step up to a more commercial type panel to make everything fit. Alternatively you may be looking at using some combination of fused disconnects to feed the two panels separately from the service entrance.

    If you want to leave the meter socket on the house and re-feed it I can hook you up with a retired meter. Then you'd be able to track usage between the house and shop.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
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    2,253
    Quote Originally Posted by John Lanciani View Post
    One thing you need to check before you start is can you get a 200 amp panel that will support an additional 200 amp breaker on the bus. Additionally, is there room to bend the 4/0 wire to get it onto the breaker to feed the house? These might be deal breakers or you may have to step up to a more commercial type panel to make everything fit. Alternatively you may be looking at using some combination of fused disconnects to feed the two panels separately from the service entrance.

    If you want to leave the meter socket on the house and re-feed it I can hook you up with a retired meter. Then you'd be able to track usage between the house and shop.

    Exactly my concern John - I dont at all think I can get the 4/0 into the existing breaker cleanly. But Im thinking if I can remove the existing meter, I can replace it with a junction box which will go from the 4/0 down to the size thats there currently feeding the main breaker. Then for future upgrade - I remove this splice and upgrade just this short segment (and possibly remount my main house panel horizontally, so the wires come straight into them from the side - no bending needed (at least no sharp bends). It does mean a junction - but already there is a meter at this point so if I can just come into the meter side the rest should be as is (and I would take you up on that extra meter!)

    As for the 200A drop off the 200A service in the shop.... ?? (more homework) - I know Im asking questions kinda bits and pieces, but havent been able to just sit down and go through it all at once. Thanks to everyone for their patience! If I feed them simultaneously from the service line means two meters again? This was the original thinking in going only 150A to the house, to help in dropping off the shop (but Im not sure that changes things all that much - still need 3/0 Al )

    Many thanks for the extra meter option. I will keep that in the back of mind. Right now it might be a 'nice to have' so we will see how simple it is to do. Higher priorities to sort out first - but if that makes the house connect doable, it might very well be the way to go.
    Last edited by Carl Beckett; 11-07-2012 at 8:35 AM.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Central Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    761
    The way I did mine was with a C320 (400amp) meter base. It has two sets of lugs and I was able to direct one set to the house 200A panel and the other to the workshop 200A panel.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    2,253
    Phase I trenching completed, pipe in, inspected and dirt pulled back over:

    photo (10).jpg

    Obviously some yard work to be done, but that will still be there come Spring. Im going to get it smoothed out and put a layer of peat moss on it to help keep the mud down over the Winter.

    Phase II trenching has begun:

    photo (11).jpg

    This just rips out through the woods. Once I get this filled over, within a week the leaves will blow over it and you will never know its there. Hoping to get this section in place by mid week.

    Then it seems (to me) that the hard part will be done, and its a matter of pulling wires and doing hookups.

    Next will be shop wiring.

    MANY THANKS to John Lanciani who came by and shared his insights and knowledge. A great guy, and testament to what makes this a great forum.

    Im not done, but am feeling like I have a chance....

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