Initial Laguna IQ HHC Review

[Ernie Martinez]

Well, I've had my IQ HHC for 2 weeks now and received several PM's for information on the machine. Here are my initial observations:

The Good:

1. Beautifully packed in a sturdy packing crate, arrived with no damage.
2. Rugged Good looking machine with very nice MDF spoil boards on top of a polycarbonate sheet with 1/2" t slots in between the boards. Very easy to swap out when needed.
3. Plug it in and turn it on, no messing about with PC's, drivers, windows etc.
4. Water cooled spindle is very quiet, and so far has plenty of torque.

And now the bad:

1. Poor Quality Control, when I lifted the controller box, I heard a clunk. I opened the box and upon inspection I found the following:
a. Z amplifier never mounted, just flopping about inside the box.
b. Only 2 screws holding in the power supply, others were loose.
c. Spindle control front panel cutout looks like it was done with a can opener, corrosion on the outside and covered up with white paint. Purely cosmetic but looks bad.
d. Broken ground wire from spindle controller.
e. Power cord was only 3 ft long, had to replace with something a little more realistic.

2. Incomplete documentation, barely any information on how to operate the HHC hand controller. Some things that are not documented:
a. How to fly cut the spoil board.
b. How to change speeds on the fly, spindle, feed etc.
c. How to change default settings.
d. How to transfer program from USB Drive to internal memory, how to delete etc.

3. After complaining about the docs they sent me a user manual for the HHC controller which is titled "RZNC-0501 Users Guide"

Google that and you will find that it's a Chinese controller, which I could have live with, but it's unreadable. I called them back and stated that when I buy a machine I expect a a complete ENGLISH manual that I can read, which illustrates ALL the functions of my machine that I need to know as an owner.

I was told by the sales guy when I was shopping, that the machine frame was made in China but that everything is assembled in the US. I am now aware that the controller and the hand held unit and all the electronics come from china. Had I known this I wouldn't have bought it. The sales information was...less than truthful by omission of crucial information. I drilled the sales guy on what was from China, and what was assembled here. Even after I called him on the condition of my box, he stuck to his guns saying that the box was assembled here. I exclaimed that I cannot believe an American built that box.

I was under the impression that spindle speed is controllable via GCode, it's not.

All units of measure are in mm and cannot be displayed in inches.


After complaining about the condition of the controller I was first offered $200 and a replacement controller box, I found that insulting since it was going to take me at least 3 hours to replace the box since it's all hard wired, no connectors to the box. Which means disconnecting all the wires to the 3 amps, power supplies etc. I didn't feel I should have to do their work. They offered to take the machine back, but it took me 5 hours to un-assemble the crate, and lift the thing with an engine hoist onto my workbench, I was not looking forward to reversing the process (they think I like wasting my time). In the end I agreed to a dust collector, and I would fix the current box.

I was supposed to get 2 hours of training with Router Bob. I havent heard squat from anyone, I've left several requests now for someone to call me to schedule.

I've been able to start using the machine right away and I'm happy with the performance, but the experience has been less than satisfactory. The machine is sturdy, and well built, and with a winCNC controller would be killer. I may start looking into converting. But for now it works, I'm learning a lot, and I can do everything I set out to do with the machine.

But right now I'm not sure if the $2000 savings over a Stinger I with an HSD spindle was a good value.

At present I cannot recommend the machine, I'm waiting to see how they support me going forward, and I will post my experience good or bad either way.

Regards

[james mcgrew]

I am feeling it for you and it may take some time yet you will use this router,, there is one note to this of merit,, the story of it being assembled in the US is never true, the machines are all built in the same place in China and as many marketing gurus will tell you only the colors are different,, remember it is a communist country and the Chinese do not compete with each other for our business, Laguna or no Laguna

[Jim Underwood]

Thanks for the review Ernie. People never seem to learn that honesty is the best policy. In the long run, making a sale this way is going to hurt them. This review just cements my initial impression of the company.

[Ernie Martinez]

Well I have my training with Router Bob on Thurs. Very nice guy on the phone. Will post update afterwards.

[Albert Nix]

I talk to them also..all very helpful even talked to "router Bob" seem very willing to help. I was looking at the B&R controller. I sure like the idea that it had it's own roll-around console that wireless. could run and monitor everything from another computer, I pad, or smart phone. But all in all I could not get past a few other issues. Anyway hopefully in a few weeks I will be playing with a Stinger III. Great folks there too!!!!!!

[Ernie Martinez]

Well now I really feel like a schmuck! Now that I know whats inside the machine with respect to the electronics, I realize that all the Chinese machines are identical. And yes I know some of you me told me so. Here is a machine http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...router-kl-1212 with identical guts , except for the fact that it comes with Mach 3 as opposed to that horrible hand controller! This is a 4 x4 machine, same electronics. x axis screw has a dust cover, integrated bench, nice large electronics cabinet, for less money than the Laguna IQ HHC. Today I was trying to get some real work done when and un-commanded 2mm -Z drove the roundover bit down into my work, smoking the bit and ruining my spoil board. Tried it again, job ran fine, tried again, same thing happened. Called support, waited 4 hours, was told they were shipping out new controller and Z motor controller, but will have to go out tomorrow since he's busy!.

[Albert Nix]

I think there are a lot of these machines out there running every day.Wonder if you ended up with a lemon. I hpoe not. I know I searched high and low and could not fine many post good or bad about laguna. Just a few you tube videos. I did read some pro and cons on the water cooled spindle but I just know enough about them to make real choose. I almost went with the pc set up. At least if I ever had to replace it I wold be looking at a few hundred bucks vs a few thousand..ouch. well I wish you
luck

[Ernie Martinez]

I'm sure theres a lot of Chinese machines running out there, theres really nothing that wrong with them. And they're VERY cheap! And it's very easy to convert to WinCNC, which I may end up doing for about $1600 + PC. Gee, I could have gotten a Stinger I with a high end spindle.

The reason for me posting here is so others don't get screwed like I did. I went around asking for information and feedback, but no one could give me any concrete information, real specifics pro and con. All I got was Chevy vs Ford comparisons with nothing to base a decision on.

Had I been told that the HHC controller is just a Chinese RZNC-0501 DSP controller that can be bought for $500 on Ebay, and that it only displays units of measure in metric and not inches, and that Spindle speed is not controllable by GCode, and that the Hand Controller is Cryptic, and doesn't allow you to easily over ride feed rates and be able to see and edit Gcode, and using it is akin to programming those old VCR's, I would have said, Hmmm, thats doesn't seem like such a good deal.

The electronics consist of Leadshine M542 Motion controllers and a Sunfar spindle inverter, and Chinese Power Supplies (all Chineese and available on Ebay). You could go out, buy the cheapest Chinese large format machine, chuck the controller, retrofit to WinCNC and you'd be way ahead of the game. Theres nothing that makes the Laguna IQ stand apart from any of the other Chinese brands.

They have a good website, lots of great video's, and what sucked me in was the "Assembled in USA" claim that makes it SEEM like its's different from the other Chinese machines. And and don't let me forget the documentation......THERE ISN"T ANY!" Everything I know now I had to scrounge on the internet. And finally their support, so far not so good, but I'm gonna give them a chance., before I pass judgement.

This is the kind of information I was looking for. Now if someone's contemplating buying a Laguna IQ they'll have a little more to base a decision on.

[Ross Moshinsky]

If you paid with a credit card, do a charge back and tell them to come and pick up their machine.

[Shane Sura]

i would tend to agree. It sounds to me like they did not live up to their advertised product.

[gary l roberts]

I agree. You should not have to deal with either a bad machine or a lemon. Tell them you want a refund. If they don't respond take it to the BBB and if you have to. go to arbitration with the BBB (no charge to you). At worst, pay shipping back to them. Don't live with something you don't want. I was on the list to buy one and got tired of waiting on the boat from China.... went to shop bot where you know it got built here (yea sometimes you get lucky).

[Ernie Martinez]

They offered to let me send it back for a full refund. That didn't appeal to me, since it took so long to disassemble the crate, unpack everything, and hoist it up onto the bench. I wasn't looking forward to reversing the process.

[Gary Max]

Ernie how much time will you spend in the next 6 months fussing trying to get it running right. Look at all the fun you ain't having now----what's the next thing that falls apart??

[Ernie Martinez]

Well to be quite honest, I was up and running immediately, My initial problems with the control box was annoying, but didn't really set me back, I was making dust right away. This issue with Z, may be a bad HHC or motor driver, but they're tough to troubleshoot because it's intermittent, but that could happen to ANY machine. When you're dealing with electronics, this is a fact of life. If I do decide to convert over to WinCNC then the conversation is over. Mechanically the machine is fine, not much to one of these, heavy frame, rails and lead screws. If this machine had a $1000 lower price point then I would recommend it. Right now my main gripe is thats it's too expensive for what you get, lack of documentation, and less than truthful sales tactics. On a positive note, I received an email from Router Bob last night in response to an email I sent in preparation to todays training session. All I was expecting was that we cover my issues during our time on the phone. Instead I got a 30 minute video where Bob went over my .crv file and re-constructed my project. This is BEFORE we even start our training session. Now that I like!

[Ernie Martinez]

I had my 2 hour training (more like 2.25 hrs) with Router Bob today. Thats was really good, I got most of my HHC questions answered, and fixed one nagging problem. Man that guy really knows VCarve Pro! This was one of the more positive experiences I've had with Laguna.