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Thread: Making window sash by hand?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Burlington, Vermont
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    Making window sash by hand?

    Has anyone here tackled making window sash with a hand-tool approach? I've seen the "Simple sash" episode of the Woodwrights shop (from season 31), and it's convinced me it's something I could possibly do with enough effort. Could double panes be obtained in the sizes to fit in divided sash, and could it be installed in traditional wooden sash, if some planning was made ahead during construction? (I would assume rabbets would need to be larger, etc.; but I have no idea if those types of panes can be glazed into place.)

    Anyone have recommendations of where to go for more information? Printed material is the most preferable, I guess.

    A beginning web search really just turns up information geared to the modern window factory, and a bit for the powertool-centric workshop. As much as I enjoy working by hand, a lot of the reason I do so is lack of access to power tools or the space to use them. If I was going to replace all seven windows (we only own the upper story of a house built through the 1800's) I'd probably try and get access to power tools to speed everything along.

    This is really just an idea in the back of my head, more than anything else. I doubt this would be an economical way to replace windows. If nothing else, though, we've got one window where the lower sash is not original, slightly damaged, and not the best match for the upper sash or the rest of the room; replacing just the lower sash would be nice. And the two poorly-installed aluminum windows in the back room would be nice to replace. I think more than anything I'm just curious.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  2. #2
    I have made and repaired lots of sash. The best book on making them by hand is Charles Heywards WOODWORK JOINTS.(correct spelling?) He covered all the slight differences in construction and did terrific drawings. Having made sash for double pane glass ,I don't like them. For double hung and triple hung sash the extra thickness makes an ugly big offset. The heaviness usually requires the metal "tape balances". I'm in the minority that just don't like double pane glass,they have a high failure rate for the small improvement in R value. I would stick to single pane and invest in some good weather stripping done by experts.

  3. #3
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    I'll look for that book, thanks Mel. My interest in double pane glass is mostly that our house is a bit on the humid side (the turtle tank and plants are the kicker, I suppose) so without some efforts to control the humidity, we tend to get a fair amount of condensation on the glass of some of the windows. I guess I was hoping double pane glass might keep warm enough on the inside to keep from getting as much condensation.

    Some better done storms might be a better solution; as ours are probably poorly installed enough to only realistically function as frames for the screens, but I'd rather have better windows and get rid of the ugly storm frames and have separate screens to place in the open windows.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  4. #4
    If condensation is the problem , double pane does help. In that case you could use one big pc of acrylic on the inside.

  5. Carpentry and Joinery by Paul Hasluck (1907) has step by step instructions for making traditional sash windows of increasing complexity. IT's not so much about the woodworking as much is it is about layout and the cutting sequences and procedures.
    -----
    Owner
    Tools for Working Wood

  6. #6
    Doormaking, Windowmaking and Staircasing. I love this book and it has excellent illustrations.

    +1 to MEl's double pane comments, I was reading about old wooden windows vs new DP vinyl. Moral of that article was that most draftiness comes from deteriorated weatherstripping or casing in need of repair. It's the entire window system that conserves heat not just glass. I tried explaining this concept to a neighbor raving about his vinyl windows and brought up the repairability of vinyl. He didn't understand a word.
    Last edited by Trevor Walsh; 11-17-2012 at 4:02 PM.
    Trevor Walsh
    TWDesignShop

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cary, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel Moskowitz View Post
    Carpentry and Joinery by Paul Hasluck (1907) has step by step instructions for making traditional sash windows of increasing complexity. IT's not so much about the woodworking as much is it is about layout and the cutting sequences and procedures.
    I'll second this. I'm replacing/restoring several windows in a house from ~1870, and this book has been my go-to text in this process. It's been a fun and enlightening challenge and the results are absolutely worth the extra effort.

  8. #8
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    Joshua - You don't need special sash planes to make windows. You can do it with a rabbet plane, a hollow of the correct size, ordinary bench planes for preparing the stock, and a purpose-built sticking board (watch the woodwright's episode on making sashes). Sash planes were intended for specialty shops that cranked out tons of windows in the 18th and 19th century (before mechanization - Roy has 2 episodes of the WWS on early mechanized production of sashes).

    It's possible that you may be able to control the condensation issue with single-pane windows where the "glass" is actually plexiglass or Lexan instead of glass. Heat transfer through plexiglass or Lexan is lower than with glass, so the inside surface stays warmer with these plastics. That said, Vermont may simply be so cold that condensation is unavoidable with any window material - if the interior surface of the glass (or plexiglass) is lower than the dewpoint of the air in the house, water will condense on the surface, regardless of the material.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2011
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    I'm with Mel on double pane windows, yuck, and all it takes is one off course bird to muck up a $2000 window. Instead, I've opted for shoji, which are very close to window frames, but no special machinations for the glass, which I make with a single sheet of plexi on the shoji instead of paper. Shoji are also stylistically similar to the plain windows in our 1954 modern/contemporary house.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Charlotte, MI
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    Joshua, I make window sash by hand professionally, mostly for historic restorations. I'd be more than happy to help you with anything you might need, up to and including tool procurement. My blog has a recent post on how to use a sash fillister, and I'm preparing an article on how to make sash by hand.

    I wouldn't waste my time with double paned sash. That's why they make storm windows, which are infinetely easier to do than double paned, house scale, sash. If you were doing a large shop window, something 2 1/2" or more thick, you could double pane, but for a house sash, 1 3/8" thick, there really isn't enough room.

    For how to, I prefer Talbot's book that Trevor Walsh mentioned. It will answer virtually all your questions.

    PM me with any questions. I might have an old article or two on my flash drive that will help you. And I might be able to put together a "study set" of sash joints for you, so you can see how they go together. This offer stands for anyone interested in sash joinery.
    Last edited by Zach Dillinger; 11-20-2012 at 2:11 PM.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  11. #11
    I realize I'm necroposting a zombie thread, but I'm interested if the offer is still open. I actually found this thread by googling making sash windows with hand tools.

  12. #12
    Hi Zach, does you offer to help with sash storms still stand? Like would you send me the build articles you have? I like in Kalamazoo and have 15 sash storms to get done before winter hits so your help would be very much appreciated. I have done a bit of woodworking and consider myself to be intermediate skill level. I own and use a decent number of hand planes, saws, and chisels so I prob just need a good primer and I'd be good to go.

    Thanks - Greg

  13. #13
    I've been looking for information on this topic as well. I have a sixties Ranch with the casement style windows. I would like to build a style of sash that wouldn't scream "The Seventies". I need some help in that department too since I don't seem to have a good imagination for this sort of stuff.

  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Howdy Greg and welcome to the Creek.

    I am not sure if Zach is still active on SawMill Creek. He hasn't posted in over a year.

    You might try clicking on his name in his post above and sending him a private message.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom - Devon
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    To try and write a "How to" on box sash windows would be pretty hard going, even though I've made plenty. As a reference point, take a look at the book from Lost Art Press https://lostartpress.com/collections...-window-making . Read the blurb on the page. The key is, it came via Richard Arnold. A skilled joiner from the UK.

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