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Thread: FWW's "Every Handplane Needs a Tuneup" - a video response

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    Tommy Mac gives me hives.
    I usually like Tommy Mac, but besides what was already mentioned, my two "huh?" moments were:

    1) He started with 80 grit sandpaper. The sole would have to be pretty out-of-flat to start at something that coarse. No need for a marker with those scratches.

    2) Using the lever cap as a screwdriver. Is this common? I've never heard of this before. I thought you want to keep the flat strip of the lever cap as true as possible. The last thing I would want to do is put some dings/burrs on the part that makes contact with the chip breaker.

  2. #17
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    Using the lever cap as a screwdriver was common enough, but certainly not a good practice. They tended to snap or chip out when too much pressure was put on them.

  3. #18
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    Thanks for the video Pat.

    I tried flattening the sole once and it was indeed a disaster. I knew very little about hand planes back then. Luckily it was my modern Stanley #4, not one of my LVs.

    I was wondering though, does anybody seen a plane sole flattened without frog attached? Does it put a convex or concave on the sole? I've seen people saying there's a difference but never know what the difference really is. (It is just a wondering. I don't think I'll ever want to do the sole flattening again.)

  4. #19
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    Yes,using the lever cap is NOT a good idea. I don't know the guy in the FWW video,but lever caps are cast iron as far as I know,and thin cast iron is brittle. Bronze lever cap is not suitable,either. Also a good way to chip the chrome plating,if there is any.

  5. #20
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    George, way back to your original comments: not sure I understand the comment about not resting the plane on it's end on the bench--could you say a bit more? Is this when I tilt the plane to about 45 degrees to insert the blade? To prevent marring the bench, the plane, or what?

    Jim (and others), curious about your choice of grits for flattening soles (only when needed of course). More than one grit?

    re lever caps and screwdrivers--I reserve my lever caps for their intended job only, they get munched when used as screwdrivers. I sharpen frequently and LOVE having a short handled screwdriver that fits the chipbreaker screw perfectly. The short handle makes a world of difference for me, I waited way too long to get one. Glen-Drake also makes a plane adjusting hammer that includes a nicely machined screwdriver--sounds awkward but it isn't. It is targeted more at planes w/out adjusters though (planes that you tap to adjust).

    A number of my planes--wooden planes I've made, an infill, and of course bevel up planes--have no chipbreaker. One less thing to fiddle with, and they don't seem to work any less well.

    I haven't yet found someone who has measured sole deflection with/without frog and blade, but will ask around. However, it's not uncommon for folks to deflect the sole on bevel up planes by over-tightening the lever cap. Many of these planes are bedded at 12.5 degrees, and the lever cap is more than strong enough to distort the thin cross section under the blade. It just needs to keep the blade from being pushed around by the wood.

    Finally, how do y'all first notice/suspect a problem with the sole of a plane? My usual scenario is someone brings me a plane and says it won't cut right. The large majority of the time it's either dull or set poorly, so I do those first. Since I'm sharpening and trying it before testing w/a straight edge, the usual symptom of a flatness issue is a plane that won't take a proper shaving no matter how easy or small--either no cut/no cut/no cut/huge cut/jam! (typically a hollow sole), or it wiggles and waggles and takes little scraps of shaving with no rhyme or reason (typically a convexity or bulge, usu. behind the mouth). That's when I reach for a straight edge, how about you?

    Btw George and others, some FINE work in the FAQ/gallery. Wow.

  6. #21
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    I don't like to mar the bench top,and am a bit OCD about it!!

  7. #22
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    Hi Pat, hello to Corvallis (HP world... I was in Vancouver for years)

    George/all:

    I was somehow trained (I say somehow because I dont know where I got this from) to always lay the plane on its side. Or, to have a strip across the front to lay it on to raise the sole off the work surface. (how they are kept in my shop drawers)

    I believe this may have been picked up from the machinist days, where we didnt like close mating surfaces for risk of condensation (for example we always stored calipers slightly open, never fully closed). I do notice that even in my unheated work area, sitting a metal plane on the wooden bench and having the temps cycle appears to cause condensation. (Im trying to fix this in other ways, so expect more updates in the workshop section before Winter is out)

    But also laying on its side to reduce risk that it sets on something that damages the blade.

    Good practice or should I be doing something different?
    Last edited by Carl Beckett; 11-25-2012 at 7:57 AM.

  8. #23
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    Pat, nice video. Funny, I had the exact same reaction to the FWW video - I cringed when I watched him lap a brand new disassembled plane on coarse sand paper clamped down to a wooden bench top, that I seriously doubt was as flat as a newly machined piece of iron.

    I completely agree that before any major lapping, grinding is done, it is best to just sharpen the blade, set the iron see how the plane works.

    Very well done response.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Griggs View Post
    Pat, nice video. Funny, I had the exact same reaction to the FWW video - I cringed when I watched him lap a brand new disassembled plane on coarse sand paper clamped down to a wooden bench top, that I seriously doubt was as flat as a newly machined piece of iron.
    If you look closely at one point in Tommy's video, you can see transverse planing marks on his bench that very much look like they were made with a coarsely set and heavily cambered blade. Nothing wrong with flattening your bench top this way as an initial step, and one may not need to go any further if you're working on long parts.

    But I rather doubt the hills between the valleys left by the bench-flattening plane are all at the same height, so I figure it's also unlikely that the bench is flat enough to lap a sole to.

    Besides, with Woodcraft now selling long, precision ground granite surface plates for very little money, I can't see a need in using one's bench to flatten a plane sole, even if you don't have a table saw or jointer to use as a reference surface.

  10. #25
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    Good discussion here - I am chalking this one up to having a WW Magazine needing new fodder to fill the pages. I subscribe to FWW and enjoy the magazine, and after watching the video, I am dismayed to a point.

    I watched the host tighten the chip breaker screw and a shiver went up my spine - I would say near 10 percent of old Stanleys have lever caps chewed up for this reason.

    As well, rattling the file around in the mouth of the plane - well, we know what can happen there.

    There are other good points that have already been beat up enough - I fall back on my magazine fodder theory.

    All in all, reading the SMC FAQ and reading the posts here are a much better way to learn and do it right. I can only pray that there are no LN or LV planes that fall victim to possible abuse because of the video.

    JMHO -

    Dave B

  11. #26
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    I thought I may as well chime in too. I saw the video too and wondered why would he do this. I guess we all know he was working on a new Woodriver plane. I have a couple of them, a #3 and a #6. I'm sure there are many here who own or have looked at them. It's my opinion they are machined at about 98% of a LN or LV plane. Yes they both had a lot of oil on them but I didn't find it a big deal to clean them off.
    I can't help but wonder what the brass at Woodcraft think about the video.

    Happy Holidays
    Bob

  12. #27
    My experience with LN planes is that they are indeed very well made. I can tell you though that their earlier work always benefited from some extra attention in my shop. I would never start lapping a plane sole with 80 grit sandpaper! If a plane needed that kind of attention it would go back to the manufacturer if it was new, onto my surface grinder if it was used and worth saving, or be given away to look quaint on a shelf somewhere.

    As George points out metal can move depending on conditions and assembly and these movements can be subtle but vexxing if you don't realise what's going on. I would think that a person serious about tuning a handplane would have a granite inspection surface, a sharpie or some blue layout dye and a good machinist's straight edge at least. Doing some research into metal properties and machining should be considered a must in my opinion.

    It is very interesting to watch how a plane sole distorts when a blade is tightened. If you want the plane to be ideal in use it is critical to evaluate it's condition while under operating settings -tight blade.

    It does indeed take a long time to remove metal, this is the saving grace of metal for those who are new to removing it!

    One thing to remember about measuring the flatness of a plane body is the temperature of the plane body. Holding the plane in your hands while lapping the sole will change it's dimensions and consequently flatness, especially in cooler conditions. Manipulating metal to a fine degree gets very fussy very quickly but it can be done with some knowledge and care.

  13. #28
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    I haven't seen the FWW video,but I certainly would NEVER lap a plane using a wooden bench top as the master flat. Granite surface plates are pretty inexpensive now,and infinitely flatter than a wooden bench.

  14. #29
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    There is one qualification I would make to Pat's reply video.

    Pat recommends, at about the 2:35 point in his video to always flatten the back of a blade.

    Lee Valley blades, for at least the past four or five years have come to us with a very flat tolerance on their faces .... something like 0.0005" over their entire faces
    http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/pag...182,43698&ap=1
    ...... yes, I gather the faces have a dull charcoal grey finish to them, not "shiney" but they are flat.... I suggest is that if you want to make the last inch of the back 'shiney' use an 8000 grit stone or finer or some green honing compound (also to remove any burr which I suspect LV removes)

    good luck

    michael

  15. #30
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    I thought the same thing, George. Lapping the sole of a new Veritas or LN is ridiculous enough, but on a bench? Unbelievable. I just lost a lot of respect for FWW.
    Where will you be when you get where you're going? -- Jerry Clower

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