Frusterated and discouraged

[Rob Dickson]

O.k...so I'm new to this. I make no bones about it, there's a LOT of things I don't know when it comes to woodworking and "traditional" woodworking in particular. The vast majority of my learning has come from books and my experience thus far has been with home renovations, a couple of fireplace mantels, some built its, etc. Oh, and I'm completely self taught. I don't profess to be an expert by any means as this is very definitely a hobby for me and is about as far removed from my regular job as you can get. I'm firmly in the beginner, newbie, pain in the a$$ camp for stupid questions and a complete lack of experience...that being said, I read a huge amount from books, blogs and basically anywhere I can further my knowledge. I'm slowly putting together my hand tool kit and have been looking hard at building a bench. The bench I've almost made up my mind on is a fairly modest project and I've been advised that it is completely within the scope of a beginner to build. So today I stop at a local lumber yard in order to start getting an idea of the price and availability of the lumber I'll require. I start to describe to one of the guys what I'm looking for in a slab and that I also realize that laminating DF may be my best option for the bench top as I live in northern British Columbia. Well, without going into the gory details, I was told, in no uncertain terms, that NOBODY builds a bench using solid slabs of wood any longer. When I asked why this was the case, I was told that the moisture content if far too high and that the top would never be stable enough. I told the fellow that I've been doing a fair bit of research and that many woodworkers are using hard maple, beech, etc for their benches. This earned me a look that said that I was completely "out to lunch". I then asked about using DF in order to laminate a top and was shown DF at the low, low price of $12.00 a board foot for a 2x10! I asked about getting the DF in a 6x6 and was again told that this was ridiculous and that no-one would use such a thing as it too was unstable. During the conversation, it also can up that I intended to dress all my stock using hand planes....guy obviously thought I was a mental patient and started looking around for a straight jacket. All in all, I left the store feeling like a complete idiot...the worst of it is that this store is the only shop in town that carries anything in the way of "exotic" wood, slabs, etc. I'm not looking forward to going back in at a later date and dealing with staff who quite obviously think I'm not all there....

At any rate...I didn't really have a question or anything. Just wanted to blow off some steam. I hate being made to feel like a complete tool when I haven't made any pretenses to the fact that I don't have the knowledge and am looking for help.

[Zach Dillinger]

Sometimes you get lucky and find a store where the staff are actually knowledgeable. It sounds like you haven't been that lucky... You know that you shouldn't go to them for advice, so your next interaction will be better. Walk in and tell them what you want.

If you want a slab, find somebody with a sawmill. It's easier and will be significantly cheaper. And you won't have to deal with people who don't know what you are trying to accomplish.

[Gabe Shackle]

If you are going to look for a slab, craigslist or the local classifieds is your friend. I was able to secure some 4"x4"x8' Ash for just over $15 a board through a contact on craigslist. Was pretty interesting, turned out they're in the business of hand-crafted caskets and had tons of extra lumber that they sell on the side when they don't need it.

[Jim Foster]

I think you need to find another sales guy or another source for lumber. For DF, if you can find construction grade, it should be much more affordable

[Rob Dickson]

I guess I was partly disappointed as this was not one of the big box stores, and I expected better from them. I've dealt with them in the past (not this particular sales guy) and have always found them to be helpful and knowledgeable. I called the store on Monday asking about the availability and cost of southern yellow pine and after describing to the guy on the phone what I wanted to do, he suggested I come down to the store and discuss it further and have a look at some of the slabs they did have in stock. The phone conversation was very positive and was really looking forward to going in today. I don't know, maybe the guy today was having a bad day or something, but I left there feeling stupid.

I've actually got a guy down the road from me who sporadically runs a specialty mill. He's got irregular hours so catching him is a bit tricky at times. I live in the largest forestry town in Northern British Columbia and figured that, in the very least, I could source and build the entire bench, with DF, for a very reasonable price...what about the moisture issue though? Is a moisture meter going to be a "must have" item?

[george wilson]

I got my beechwood sawn at a country sawmill cheap. I had to wait for the 4x6"s to dry for 4 years inside my shop. Luckily,I found a 24" x 4" x8ft. piece of beech in a lumber yard of a country sawmill. I let it dry too. Paid $10.00 for it!! Of course,it had a piece of barbed wire running near 1 end. I drilled it out and hammered in boat shaped plugs.

If you know someone with a Wood Miser saw mill,you can get wood cut cheap,but it is green,of course. You could get it cut to over 2" and dry it in 2 years and laminate it if you can wait.

With those prices quoted above,buying a maple top from Grizzly is looking more like a bargain!! I bought a 3' x 8' one for a work table. The legs are 3x3" angle iron,welded up. Really a very rigid table. I use it for metalworking.

[Carl Beckett]

During the conversation, it also can up that I intended to dress all my stock using hand planes....guy obviously thought I was a mental patient and started looking around for a straight jacket.

All in all, I left the store feeling like a complete idiot...

.

This is a good thing you know. I like it when people talk about me in this way: "You know what that lunatic is up to now??"

And if you think about it, they are right (why WOULD anyone dress all this down with hand tools!!). Well..... because g$! dammit, because!

$12 / bd ft is crazy high. Availability of supply I guess. I feel for you on that one, and hope you can find something more reasonable (what does it take to have something shipped in??)

All progress is brought about by one lunatic on a rampage.....

Or more politely:

A reasonable person looks at the world and adapts.

An unreasonable person looks at the world, and tries to get the world to adapt to them!

So all progress is brought about by the unreasonable person.

[Marko Milisavljevic]

In BC SYP is not an option, but I found some very nice almost completely knot free straight grained douglas fir on Vancouver craigslist last year for about $50 - someone had a leftover from a project. More than enough to build one big heavy bench. Just keep looking around until you develop better sources. I bet there is a guy or few in Prince George who has some trees on their acreage, a small sawmill and a much better price than local lumberyard. Douglas Fir for $12/bdft in BC just can't be right.

[Bruce Haugen]

Take everybody's advice and do what you know is best. Get thee to a sawmill and find someone who will give you what you want. Ignore that know-nothing yokel. There's nothing worse than unhelpful help.

According to his standards, I guess that bench I made from 2X4's about 28 years ago isn't going to hold together, either.

[Rob Mathis]

Douglas Fir is $12. a board foot? Are you kidding me? In the Pacific North West? Shoot, I would switch to Maple if that is the case. Also shop around at that price you could have something shipped in via LTL. Did you look at the wood finder site to see if there is anyone else in your area?

[Gabe Shackle]

The more I think about that price the more I wonder if the salesman was confusing board foot with per board. $12 for a 2x10x8' sounds about right in my neck of the woods (minnesota).

[Rob Dickson]

Thanks guys....I can't figure out what he was quoting either. I actually just refreshed myself with the definition of "board-foot" vs. "linear foot" in case I was screwing something up. While I was in there, and before I looked at the DF, I saw they had a maple slab that was about 2.5 inches thick by 12 feet long and approximately 18 inches wide selling for $11.58 a board foot....i was very surprised when he gave me the $12 price on the DF.

I'm out of town tomorrow, but just got a line on another small local mill from a neighbor. I'll try and track that down on Friday. If all else fails I know where there's a large slab of ash (and another of white oak)....its on the other side of the country in Nova Scotia but at these prices the shipping may be worth it!

Thanks for all the responses...I was really starting to believe that my expectations were unreasonable up to this point.

[Rob Dickson]

Bit of an update...just found a mill about an hour away that sells mainly to the Timber framing industry. Great guy to talk to, and just quoted me $50.00 for two 4"x12"x 6 foot slabs of DF. He also said that they should be able to help out with my 6x6 legs too! Apparently these timbers have been air drying for a year inside one of their storage barns....now I'm excited! Its been a hell of a day!

[Prashun Patel]

Congrats. Not to be a parade rainer, but if poss, check the mc on those 6 x 6 timers. One year air drying might be on the short side.


Also slabs are cool and all, but a laminate top will be a might more stable. Plus u can make it thicker.


Know that u Are paying a premium for that length and width. Buying smaller pieces may be quite a bit cheaper with the benefit of resulting in a bench w more mass.


Just sayin.

[george wilson]

You need 1" thickness PER YEAR to dry hard woods. Would be less for soft woods,but more than a year is needed. Can you get anyone to include it in a kiln load for you?