[OP]
Contributor
Any have or are familiar with the Very Super Cool Tools table saw fence? Saw the Wood Whisperer do a little vid on them, so I took a look at the web site. Looks really neat. It's supposed to be dead flat, adjustable and versatile. I'd love to hear some feedback from someone who uses one.
Contributor
What web site? I googled the name, and got vsctools.com, which turned out to offer "An Extra Fast, Lockdown Secure, Super Happy ZippyKid Site".Originally Posted by Derek Arita
Contributor
There home page looks like it got hi-jacked. The rest of their site looks like it is still up.
http://vsctools.com/shop/
[OP]
Contributor
This is where I saw it. Actually, I first saw the vid, then went to the website. Wood Whisperer says it's dead flat, unlike my Biesemeyer that has undulations created by bolts that connect fence face to fence tube.
It does look pretty cool and versatile. He doesn't mention if the 80/20 extrusion is just stock or if it is milled flat. "Dead flat" means different things to different people and extrusions are not "flat" without being milled (to my way of thinking about "flat"). I do like his ideas and the fence seems to be built like a beast (I mean that in a good way).
P.s. Putting new faces on your Beis is not a big deal. Varnished or shellac'd and waxed MDF makes a great fence face.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
Agree with Glenn...it would have to be milled flat to be dead flat, as the 80/20 extrusions I have are not "dead flat." 80/20's tolerances for their stock extrusions are a little lax to be good enough for a "dead flat" tablesaw fence, so I imagine there must be some milling, either by 80/20, or VSC, somewhere along the line.
Contributor
Here is a link to a blog entry on the site that talks about the extrusions. He writes that the company uses 80/20 extrusions. There are some cool videos linked to that show manufacturers extrusion process.
http://vsctools.com/aluminum-extrusion/
Anyone know what the spec or tolerance for flat and parallelism is for the 80/20 extrusions?
Contributor
Answered my own question. I found this on page 154 of the 80/20 interactive catalog...
• Twist per foot of length not to exceed .25 degree and total twist over 20 feet of length not
to exceed 1.5 degrees.
• Flatness .004" per inch of width
• Straightness 0.0125" per foot of length, not to exceed .120" over 20 feet of length
Contributor
That extrusion reminds me of automation structures. Like Bosch. Wonder if its just a section of this?
And if you like the concept, wonder if you could pick up a section of this at a liquidation auction and bolt it to your current setup.
Guest
I like it.
I have a Ryobi BT3000 table saw (the saw people love to hate). It uses an aluminum extrusion that clamps front/back, and has t-slots for accessory fences. It works extremely well, and would be difficult for me to let go for a cabinet saw with a customary T-square fence like the Biesemeyer.
Member
Think it's pretty likely all right Carl that the extrusions are those sold as a part of a modular machine framing system - in this case the 80:20 system for which there's a video showing its use in machine building on the linked page above. 'Item' in Germany http://www.mbsitem.co.uk/products/products.html were the first of these I saw back in the 80s when building manufacturing systems for a multinational.
Those tolerances are pretty loose to my mind David - compared at least to the level of flatness and straightness needed for a rip fence. Against that it's very likely that they are much flatter than those numbers in practice. It doesn't seem to be too hard to produce a straight extrusion - this is achieved by 'stretching' it. Literally grabbing the ends and pulling until the metal takes on a slight permanent set.
Controlling cupping and twisting is not so easy - I don't know how that is normally achieved but Incra/Incremental Tools somehow lightly skim/surface their fence extrusions before anodising - wish I knew what the process is and if its commercially available as I have another fence that needs doing. Even respectable machine makers like Hammer seem to suffer some issues in this regard - they don't skim theirs.
One issue I seem to find when using a fence made from a fairly large extrusion is that it can be awkward when the need arises to work thin and/or narrow pieces. Some commercial fences like that on the Hammer saws and I think the Vega are 'L' sectioned, and provide the option of low or high fence - they can be slid out and remounted lying on their side by using a different mounting slot.
I guess a consideration if using a commercial extrusion is just how to this and other set ups might be achieved. It at least has plenty of mounting slots, and is good and strong...
ian
Last edited by ian maybury; 12-07-2012 at 9:02 AM.
Member
Why not just replace your bies face with some 80/20 extrusion? Doesn't seem like it would be hard to attach. You could also probably take the extrusion to a metal shop and get it milled dead flat and parallel for pretty cheap.
[OP]
Contributor
I def thought about this. Some issues come to mind...
First, one of the problems with the Bies is that the tube itself, is not straight because of welds at the ends and dimpled holes for mounting the face. That's what deflects the OEM face. I suppose if I got the tube milled flat and parallel, it might work. Secondly, attaching the extrusion to one side of the fence would be fine, but what about the other side? I sometimes use my fence on the left side of the blade. Also, the Bies is already pretty heavy to start out with. Adding the weight of the extrusion would make it weigh a ton and I remove my fence regularly. Lastly, my Bies does not have the two plastic screws that allow you to make the fence face 90* to the table, so that might be another issue.
If this fence is as flat as the they say it is, then I'm sold. The price is not unreasonable and it looks solid as a rock. I've spent hours with shims and a straight edge trying to flatten my Bies and other Bies style fences and I just can't get it, yet I like the way the Bies moves on the table. I'm hoping the extruded fence has a similar feel.
Contributor
One thing to keep in mind is that 80/20 is not designed to be flat. The faces of the T-slots are sloped inwards. It's designed this way to act as a spring washer when a bolt is tightened down. In use, the t-slot will take on slight dents when used.
Guest
Well, you could always replace the faces with some plywood faces with t-slots routed into them. I use the Rockler and Whiteside bits to add slots to plywood all the time. I never buy t-slot extrusion, the routed plywood is plenty sturdy.
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