The goofy stones thread....

[David Weaver]

Yeah, don't do that if you don't have unallocated discretionary dollars. It is mostly fruitless.

Actually, if I were looking at it from a smart money viewpoint and had to have one, I would get one of the ultra hard razor appropriate stones, or perhaps another stone that I'm going to post later (from south africa) as you can get most of your money back from the razor users and they can be had in sizes large enough to use tools, and with nagura of any type, they'll cut things that oilstones won't. They are also the finest and hardest, and you couldn't use one in two lifetimes, so even a decade later, you'll have wasted little.

They also prevent you from getting a natural stone and saying "well, there's nothing better about this stone than my 8000 synthetic stone", which is generally true for most stones that are a step off of high hardness.

[David Weaver]

The aforementioned hone, new material stones from a guy in south africa. I have no idea what they actually are, like if they were historically used for anything or if this guy just chanced across material that is extremely fine and uniform.

This stone came with a high polish on the surface, so I'm not that sure yet how fine it is, but it's beyond oilstone fine, whatever it is.

I forgot to take a picture of the back, but it has a skin like the japanese stones above, very rust colored. It's sort of a boring looking stone, but it has a great feel.

P1060357.jpg

They are not cheap, but they are a fraction of the cost of a good known-mine japanese natural finisher. This one is so fine that it would have to be slurried to be used for tools.

Razor fanatics prefer stones that have labels, so the guy who finishes these had the label made up to be stuck to the back of the stone or lacquered on if a user desires.

In general, if you have any natural stone and it's possible to get a label, the stone will be worth a lot more with the label.

[Jim Koepke]

In general, if you have any natural stone and it's possible to get a label, the stone will be worth a lot more with the label.

One of my stones has a paper label. A few have identifying information printed on the stones.


Can't imagine any of these being all that valuable:

Mostly Oil Stones.jpg

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

You're right! Nothing there of any value, so I'll let you pay me, to take the Lily White off your hands!

[David Weaver]

Yeah, that's one where the label makes it worth about 40 bucks instead of $5

Speaking of washitas, my dad has always (i hope he never reads this board) been terrible about taking care of his tools. He was an avid hunter and when i look at his knives, I have no idea how he gutted animals...brute force, I guess.

So over Christmas, I said "hey, let's get your knives out of the gun cabinet and sharpen one of them". I recalled that he had a coarse carborundum stone and he also had a fine stone that was covered in black that he said was "big but too slow and worthless" (at least that's what he told me when I was little). Figured it was a clogged up carborundum fine stone.

I took a closer look at the end of it, scraped some of the gick off of it, and it is a washita stone..8x2. The exact consistency of a pike/norton stone (label long gone).

Took about 5 minutes and half a can of very old singer sewing machine oil (he also collects old oil cans) and the crud on the surface was transferred to the coarse carborundum stone leaving a fresh washita to sharpen knives. After about 5 more minutes of grinding the nicks out of his best knife (a carbon steel vintage camillus hunting knife - one that he also thought was junk) on the coarse carborundum stone, I finished the knife with 50 razor type strokes freehand on the washita (courtesy again of more singer sewing machine oil) and a quick strop on a smooth junk belt, and I have never seen an edge so fine from a stone as coarse.

Big big fan of the washitas for knives. My dad is now, too. He spent the rest of the evening working over the other knives in his cabinet...freehand, working on his newfound skill.

You never know where an old washita stone will show up. Lucky for him, he grew up very poor and never throws anything away.

[Jim Koepke]

Yeah, that's one where the label makes it worth about 40 bucks instead of $5

That's nice, doubt if it will be sold before the price goes up 10 fold.

I finished the knife with 50 razor type strokes freehand on the washita (courtesy again of more singer sewing machine oil) and a quick strop on a smooth junk belt, and I have never seen an edge so fine from a stone as coarse.

There is also one that is a brighter white, a bit wider and a bit shorter that came in a leather pouch. They both put a nice surface on a chisel. They still don't match the surface my translucent Arkansas from the rock show leaves. That sucker can come close to the shine my 8000 Norton water stone imparts on an edge. I still regret that I didn't take more money to the show and buy all the novaculite they had. That is one slick piece of stone.

jtk

[Tony Zaffuto]

When looking at the pictures of the "tam O shanters", I'm not so sure that what I'm calling my user washita is not really one of them (what I'm calling a washita is speckled and looks similar to the pictured stone)! Having not used a "tam O shanter" (or seen one in person) does anyone with experience with one have an opinion of how it compares with a washita?

[george wilson]

I haven't tried to use my Tam o Shanter pencils to sharpen a tool as they are made for polishing and smoothing down silver. They are a flat,slate color,light gray. They are softer than a Washita.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I haven't tried to use my Tam o Shanter pencils to sharpen a tool as they are made for polishing and smoothing down silver. They are a flat,slate color,light gray. They are softer than a Washita.

What has me wondering, is the stone I've called a washita is visually similar to the Tam o Shanter pictured by Jeremy Smith. My stone is definitely not a polishing stone, and acts somewhat similar to a medium india, only a tad faster. If I was not so lazy to learn how to post pics, I would do so!

Almost forgot, I also have what you described as a "flat, slate, light gray" stone. Color is very consistent, stone is soft and is of no use for my chisels or plane blades. Only cost me a buck or two and because it was not oil soaked, when I "tested" it, I used a bit of water.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here are some of the odd, unusual, or notable natural stones I've come across, including some razor hones since David is including these.

The first picture has mostly straight-razor associated stones. The first three are Belgian Coticules. I find these to be highly variable from stone to stone. The largest chunk on the left creates a slurry rather easily, while the thin long one (second from left) is harder. Although people say you can use oil on a Coticule, it doesn't seem appropriate.

I believe the next two thin gray stones are Thuringians, and I have it on authority from David that this was a common size and shape for these stones for use on razors. They're very fine natural water stones. My theory about thin stones with straight razors is that since you're honing less of the edge at any given time, you're less likely to over-hone the middle of the edge, which leads to a "frowny" and therefore unusable straight razor edge. But maybe David would like to comment on that.

The next two are synthetic barbers' hones. The gray one has the label "SHAVING SHARPNESS" and underneath "MADE OF CARBORUNDUM." Despite this, it is nonetheless fairly fine--about a 1000 grit I'd guess. The brown barber hone is finer and made with what I suspect is a ceramic or resin bond. One the non-business side it is embossed with "VOM CLEFF & CO. / NEW YORK" and has a glassy, slightly "rubber eraser" texture. This one works well with some shaving lather.

The last one is a Norton Queer Creek Stone. This natural stone has a pleasing milky blue gray color. I'd rate the grit at between 600-1000 and I used it successfully for setting the bevel on an old razor. Nice stone, but has some harder knotty areas. I don't know where these were quarried--I don't think it was Arkansas Novaculite deposits--and think these may have fallen out of favor simply because the meaning of the word Queer bifurcated from "strange" or "odd" into having a LGBT context.



This is the obverse side of the Coticules. The one on the left is all Coticule. The second one has the coarser Belgian slate bonded on, while the third one has the natural seam. You can see the label on the Queer Creek stone. It was hardly used when I found it.

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here are some Arkansas stones. Although the first two appear to be soft Arkansas, they are medium-hard and have a lot of color to them. The next two I call "The Sullied Old Maids" because I think they were at one time Lily White Washitas. I sometimes nickname my stones. I've used these although not extensively, and can attest to the observation that they have the unusual, and useful property of being able to cut quickly with a lot of pressure, but also give you a fine, keen edge when you use only a little pressure. This quality is true to some degree of most stones, but is more pronounced with these; if you had to have only one "desert island" wonder stone, this would be a great choice.

The next, small stone is included because it is one of those brulé-creamy, not-quite-translucent novaculites David mentioned. I first encountered a stone like this as a schoolkid in the UK when my shop teacher showed me how to sharpen a chisel, and have seen only this one since. It's a great stone, though too small for much other than paring knives or maybe as a razor hone.

The next one is not unusual for any other reason than that it is excellent. It's a Norton black translucent I've nicknamed "Black Lightning" and is my favorite stone of all time. Like the wheels of justice, it grinds slow but exceedingly fine. More true oddballs after I take the kids sledding.

[David Weaver]

Yes, stones in the 1x5 range are common for a razor. I hate them, but it's because of laziness, I guess. The longer you sharpen with a straight razor, the less it will see the stones, at least if you have a good strop.

I'm going to guess that those small 1x5 stones were made due to cost. 2 1/2 x 5 or 6 inches seems to be about the nicest hand held stone to use that I can think of. I have seen people say before that frowns often come from:
* many years of use on a loaded strop with no correction from stones
* stones that are too narrow and bad technique of the sharpener

A full stroke on any stone should at worst make a straight edge on the razor (a little bit of a smile is desirable, the middle of the razor sees the face the most, anyway).

While I've seen some razors that look almost unusable on ebay, I don't know for sure what actually causes them to be sharpened hollow into a frown, mine are close to straight with the very end muted on the side of a stone.

I haven't seen much on queer creek stones other than that they were a second line stone. I don't know where they come from (I'm sure someone could look it up easily), same as the hindostan hones, which come from somewhere in the US despite an indian sounding name. And not to forget grecian hones, which are novaculite hones from the UK. Not sure why they call them that.

[Jim Koepke]

While I've seen some razors that look almost unusable on ebay, I don't know for sure what actually causes them to be sharpened hollow into a frown

It likely is caused by a blade being honed back and forth. The middle of the blade has the most contact with the stone in this sharpening motion.

Here is something from downloading a magazine today:

Ad Tam O' Shanter Hones.jpg

The Tam O' Shanter is just one of the many stones that never came to my attention before this thread.

jtk

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here are a couple more odd ducks, and slightly larger & longer ones at that. The one on top I call the "Brindle Stone" and is in a wooden box labeled "NYB Co." which my research indicates was the New York Boiler Co. Ever wonder how all the houses in New York got heated in the winter before heating oil? Lots of wood and coal; one could see the necessity of sharpening a lot of axes and possibly other edge tools in such a setting. I've seen a stone like this characterized on ebay as a "Turkey Stone," but my suspicion is that the seller called it that more because it resembles the mottled brown and dark brown of a turkey feather than its ultimate origin. So-called "Turkey Stones" were, according to my research, actually quarried in Crete. They are supposedly gray, often with white veins, and could be used with oil or water. At one time they were held in very high regard by the craftsmen and barbers of Europe. I don't think the "Brindle Stone" is an example of the fabled "Turkey Stone."

David Weaver has seen this stone and supposed it was a soft Arkansas of some variety, and as I started to flatten it, it gave off a sort of fine, sedimentary slurry reminiscent of the silica in Arkansas stones. But it's exceedingly hard; the flattening process was tedious in the extreme, so I got it "mostly there" in hopes of finishing the job later. The surface I was able to grade down is glassy and unusually fine.

The second stone has an oleaginous, slate-y feel to it, like oil shale. If the edges weren't so straight I'd suppose it had been made by just some guy somewhere from a local quarry like some stones you see with unfinished bottoms. Haven't given this one much use yet, and had speculated that it was some chip of slate brought over by a Welshman. David has also seen this one and may have something to say about it. As I recall, he'd thought it was sufficient as an intermediary stone.

[David Weaver]

It likely is caused by a blade being honed back and forth. The middle of the blade has the most contact with the stone in this sharpening motion.

Here is something from downloading a magazine today:

Ad Tam O' Shanter Hones.jpg

The Tam O' Shanter is just one of the many stones that never came to me attention before this thread.

jtk

Right, but I guess the question is whether or not it's caused by stones too narrow or by the method prescribed in barber texts that has an individual pulling the razor off the edge of the stone. Or if it's from a narrow strop that's loaded with a coarse paste (as the razor makers each have a series of pastes that have progressively finer grit).

One thing is likely true, and that is that most of those razors saw more use than most gentleman shavers these days would give a razor. We have several (to many) and I think a careful user could get a lifetime out of a single 6/8 razor, honing only a couple of times a year with the proper use of a strop and linen.

A hack can wear the spine of a razor heavily in a few honings, though. Hopefully a stone coarser than a finish stone is needed only once and then never again.