Bookcase Help

[Chris McLeester]

So, I have been practicing with my router and think I'm ready to try to make something for real. I was thinking of making this bookcase.

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TFH..._BOOKCA_13.JPG

As you can see, it uses biscuits. I was planning on using dados for the shelves instead (I have a router that I really want to try out -- and no biscuit joiner).

I am lost as to how to attach the bottom and top shelves. I can't rout a dado for them since they sit flush with the sides.

For the bottom, I thought of two choices:

1. pocket screws
2. putting a dado an inch or so up from the bottom (and letting the legs cover the sides)

For the top, I could again use pocket screws. But I was wondering about putting a dado a quarter inch down for the shelf and then slipping the top over top of it with a stopped dado (1/4 deep). Do you think that would work? Would it be bad to have the two surfaces against each other like that?

Is there some simple solution I'm missing (other than buying a joiner)? I was planning on attaching the legs with pocket screws.

I don't think it matters, but I'm making the bookcase larger than these plans (wider, taller, and deeper). The top will be edge glued.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[Sam Murdoch]

When I use a a router for this type of work I don't use a dado the full height of my horizontal pieces. For 3/4" top, bottoms and shelves I will dado a 1/2" or 3/8" slot in my sides. This allows me to compensate for any irregularities in the thickness of my material especially when I am building with plywood and it also solves the problem to your question.

My side slot is set at the exact height that locates the top of the shelves and the bottom pieces. However for the very top I just flip this upside down - the slot in the side is cut to match the very bottom of my top piece so 1/4" down from the top of the sides. This allows a top and bottom flush with the sides. I make my dados first with a router bit and then I cut the tenons on the horizontals to fit my dado. These I usually cut with the table saw but the router and the right sled will work too.

You could eliminate the inside top as shown in the drawing but I like that an interior top maintains the exact width of the unit and gives the top of the cabinet a thicker detail. Then your outside (finished) top could be a more decorative wood. No problem having the 2 tops together. Just finish both independently if using solid wood. If your bookcase is plywood and the very top is solid you will need to finish both faces of the top and hold it to the subtop in such a way as to allow the top to move independently of the subtop.

I could sketch this on Sketch Up if I have not made myself clear but I need to get to my work computer for that so if you need more info I can do that later.

[Chris McLeester]

Sam--
This sounds promising. Probably a stupid question, but how do you make your horizontal pieces fit into the undersized slots? Thanks for the advice!

[John TenEyck]

Chris, no disrespect, but by the nature of your questions I think you would really benefit from one or two good books on cabinet making. Many folks like "Illustrated Cabinetmaking" by Bill Hylton. It will show you how to design and build cabinets and tables, which joints are used where, etc.

John

[Sam Murdoch]

In any event here is a simple illustration.

Screen shot 2012-12-22 at 7.57.32 PM.jpg

[Chris McLeester]

John --
I am a decided amateur. I am used to construction and lumber. But I'm trying to learn. I will be buying some books, but I feel this project should be a good chance to develop some skills. Have any easy answers to my beginner questions?

[Chris McLeester]

Thanks, Sam. So it's kind of like a combination of a rabbet and a dado. That is what I was thinking of, but the picture makes it much clearer.

Do you use a rabbet bit to do that on the horizontal member?

[Stephen Cherry]

Here's a nice video for ideas. Also, a trip to the library would be in order.

[John TenEyck]

Chris, we all were amateurs once. I already gave you the easiest answer. It's all there for the reading. Here you will get some good advise and some not so good, even if the intention is good. What you will find in most well respected books are methods that have stood the test of time, and where and why they are used. Learning those methods and their application will get you way up the learning curve, and reduce the amount of lumber ruined and frustration along the way.

John

[keith micinski]

In any event here is a simple illustration.

Screen shot 2012-12-22 at 7.57.32 PM.jpg

That bottom shelf isn't going to support anything other then itself built that way.

[keith micinski]

Rout a dado on the inside faces of the legs for the bottom piece. You can stop the dado underneath the side panel so you can't see it from the outside.

[Chris McLeester]

Just ordered the book on Amazon. I definitely want to learn more. But I often learn best by doing (and sometimes failing). Sam's method makes sense to me and I can't wait to try it. Thanks for the advice.

[Sam Murdoch]

That bottom shelf isn't going to support anything other then itself built that way.

Yes - and I know that too. Drawing out of context and trying to simplify and give quick answers is dangerous business. I would add a sub bottom fastened into the sides or a fully supporting base or set the bottom much higher. All the stuff we know. I would not build it that way or the way it was illustrated in the drawing that started the post for that matter. I don't build cabinetry that fails but I do sometimes give only partial advice with no proper editing until you all get involved. I'm embarrassed. Just goes to illustrate John's point.
Sorry to Chris.

[keith micinski]

Not trying to hassle you just wasn't sure if the original poster would know you we're just demonstrating and not actually showing a method you thought might actually work.

[Chris McLeester]

What is wrong with the bottom shelf? I would think the dado would hold it. Am I missing something obvious?