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Thread: Is a gouge the right tool here?

  1. #1

    Is a gouge the right tool here?

    I'm trying to put a 1/8" radius on a leg detail for my butcher block. The detail goes al the way across the leg - a straight crosscut. This thread shows the leg detail Im working on.

    Ive been using rasps and sandpaper. Is a gouge a better tool for this work, if I ordered one with a small radius? Maybe a 4 mm #9?

    Im not a carver, so I dont know much about gouges. I've heard Woodcraft has some swiss made that cut well.

    Thank you!
    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 06-24-2017 at 5:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    I'm trying to put a 1/8" radius on a leg detail for my butcher block. The detail goes al the way across the leg - a straight crosscut. This thread shows the leg detail Im working on.

    Ive been using rasps and sandpaper. Is a gouge a better tool for this work, if I ordered one with a small radius? Maybe a 4 mm #9?

    Im not a carver, so I dont know much about gouges. I've heard Woodcraft has some swiss made that cut well.

    Thank you!
    Fred
    I didn't see the detail in the other thread. In my experience, gouges tend to cut better with the radius edge down. If you want to cut a bead across the grain it may be better to knife the outside and then use a #3 sweep or even a skewed #2 gouge to shape it.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
    20170611_144950.jpg

    Sorry Jim. I should have been more clear. If you look at this pic carefully, you can see the groove Ive cut across the grain is rounded on one side. That's the detail I'm referring to.

    I'll try the flatter gouge as you suggest. Thank you.
    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 06-24-2017 at 7:33 PM.

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    Rounding a corner across the grain is always a bit tricky. Currently one of my hollow molding planes would be sharpened to the hilt and given a try coming from both sides. A low angle block plane can also coax a corner into roundness.

    Many ways to get the same effect.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #5
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    I'm with Jim on this. I would round over as much as possible with a block plain, and then finish with a very sharp hollow plane (I just happen to have the Asian ones from Lee Valley).
    Last edited by John Schtrumpf; 06-24-2017 at 8:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by John Schtrumpf View Post
    I'm with Jim on this. I would round over as much as possible with a block plain, and then finish with a very sharp small hollow plane (I just happen to have the Asian ones from Lee Valley).
    Thanks John. How do you like those Asian H&Rs? Ive been eyeballing them a long time but have heard they are decent but not up to LV's own in-house quality. How do you gind yours?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Thanks John. How do you like those Asian H&Rs? Ive been eyeballing them a long time but have heard they are decent but not up to LV's own in-house quality. How do you gind yours?
    They are not in the same class as Veritas, but for wooden planes they are okay, and work. They come already ground. I initially (before first use) sharpen the bevel with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel and the back flat on a stone. Then I hone them before every use with a dowel charged with honing compound on the bevel, and the back on my normal strop.

  8. #8
    Fred, believe it or not the issue with using a gouge like a #9 bevel up, the edges of the gouge will tend to dig into the flat surfaces next to the round over detail. As Jim stated you be much better served with a flatter gouge like a #3 or # 5, they will lessen the chances of a dig in. Having said all that, a nice sharp block plane is a tool that I would use for your edge detail. If you really want to try carving the detail, a nice sharp bench (a #1) chisel would work as well as a new carving gouge..
    Last edited by Robert LaPlaca; 06-24-2017 at 9:15 PM. Reason: mixed up up and down

  9. #9
    Thanks John. Next time they have free shipping, I think I'll buy a couple of the small radius ones and see what I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    20170611_144950.jpg
    Sorry Jim. I should have been more clear. If you look at this pic carefully, you can see the groove Ive cut across the grain is rounded on one side. That's the detail I'm referring to.
    This may sound sloppy but I round end grain edges like that with sandpaper glued on a flat stick. I keep thin sticks with 80-400 cloth-backed grit, 1" and 2" wide, fastened with spray contact adhesive. They may not look machine cut but that doesn't bother me.

    JKJ

  11. #11
    Thanks Robert! Now I get it.

    I'm not really "married" to carving this detail, but I got to wondering what the "right" tool for this job was. I thought it might be one of those tight radius gouges. But I have a #3 and I'll try both it and the LN block plane and see which works better for me.

    Fred

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    This may sound sloppy but I round end grain edges like that with sandpaper glued on a flat stick. I keep thin sticks with 80-400 cloth-backed grit, 1" and 2" wide, fastened with spray contact adhesive. They may not look machine cut but that doesn't bother me.

    JKJ
    John, you're sanding WITH the grain, correct? I hadnt thought about a 2" wide stick. I kept wishing I had a shorter/wider rasp. <head slap!>

  13. #13
    I use a back bent gouge for this kind of thing. It takes some skill both to sharpen the gouge and to execute the cut. You want something in the #4 or 5 range, a #9 is too U shaped. You could also use a scribing gouge (incannel); this is the way we often cut the cross grain rounded chamfers on the end of a wooden plane.

    If I were short of tools, I would rough it out with a chisel then smooth with a file. Skew the chisel and make some practice cuts.

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    Fred, believe it or not the issue with using a gouge like a #9 bevel up, the edges of the gouge will tend to dig into the flat surfaces next to the round over detail. As Jim stated you be much better served with a flatter gouge like a #3 or # 5, they will lessen the chances of a dig in.
    Just for fun I rounded some end grain on a book shelf unit that is my current project. It was fairly easy with the flatter sweep gouges. As Robert said, the rounder sweeps have a tendency for their sides to hit and dig in in unwanted places. One solution for this is to have a wider gouge for the sweep.

    If you do use a hollow plane, do half from one side and half from the other side to avoid blow outs.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  15. #15
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    Sanding a radius

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    John, you're sanding WITH the grain, correct? I hadnt thought about a 2" wide stick. I kept wishing I had a shorter/wider rasp. <head slap!>
    For your case I'd be basically sanding end grain to form the radius. (We sand end grain it all the time on the lathe.) Be careful not to go crazy and scar the side grain! I do save the last bit of rounding for going with the grain on the face.

    The drill is:
    - sand a 45-deg flat. The width/depth of that first flat is critical as it determines the minimum radius.
    - sand narrower flats on either side at 1/2 the angle
    - sand the peaks of off to form close to a arc and smooth to a nice arc with fine sandpaper
    The whole thing is similar to the technique of turning successive flat spots to end up with a perfect sphere on the lathe.

    I use Klingspor Gold sandpaper in 1" and 2" width rolls. The choice of 1" and 2" wide sticks was easy then.
    I usually put one grit on each side so I don't have so many sticks to keep up with. I write the grit number right on the face of the sandpaper with a fat blue Sharpie. If the stick is thicker (I sometimes use scraps of 1/2' plywood) I also write the grit on the sides of the stick with arrows pointing to the correct surface.

    sanding_blocks.jpg

    Oh, I often finish sand a radius like this with fine sandpaper stretched around a soft sanding block - a white Magic Rub eraser!

    sanding_soft_block.jpg

    The sanding sticks are perfect for lots of tasks. One thing I use them for is to put a 180-deg polished radius on the edges of these, to catch the light:

    penta_maple_ellis_IMG_5435.jpg

    JKJ

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