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Thread: Bad Axe saws worth it? Anyone try Winsor saws?

  1. #16
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Richards View Post
    If you are enough of a muppet to get a saw into that situation its pretty doubtful that you will have the necessary motor skills to be able to straighten it successfully ...
    It might be if a beginner does it to a saw initially, but the same beginner should progress to the level of skill to be able to make that fix easily.

    (the importance of how different fixing the two is might be negated by LN's return policy - they may fix mistakes, including those made by muppets. I don't have any new production saws, though, so I don't know what any of the places would do. Putting together three from parts and replacing the plate on another old english saw, I certainly appreciated the ability to adjust the back easily until the entire assembly was straight).
    Last edited by David Weaver; 01-03-2013 at 4:53 PM.
    Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

  2. #17
    +1 for Ron Bontz. His saws are outstanding and his prices are reasonable. I just bought one of his dovetail saws and its fantastic!! I'm not sure what he has left (if anything) but a couple of weeks ago he was selling some saws at VERY reasonable prices.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Madison, WI
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    324
    I have to Bad Axe saws, the 18" tenon rip and the 14" sash crosscut. They are excellent saws and worth every penny to me. It did help my decision to get my first Bad Axe that Mark's a Wisconsinite. The decision to get the second Bad Axe was because of how nice the 1st was.

  4. #19
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    Apr 2010
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    Frederick, Maryland
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    Here is my question...for those who pay big bucks on Bad Axe saws do they include free sharpening? Mark is fantastic at sharpening which is what makes his saws so nice, but what happens when they dull?...what are his sharpening prices?

    For that reason, I like Lie Nielsen, lifetime warranty, USA made, affordable, and $15 sharpening.

  5. #20
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    Jul 2010
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    Calgary AB, Canada
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    I have 4 Bad Axe saws... A 10 inch DT I use in thinner wood, a 12 inch filed rip I like when dovetailing in a bit thicker woods, a 14 inch filed X-cut and a 16 inch filed hybrid. I do not ever regret buying these and they perform to the extreme...

    That said, they are not cheap, but in my mind, I was able to justify the cost difference when thinking that over the course of my lifetime, it made a difference of few cups of starbucks a year... lol! If you can justify it, they are a pleasure to use, but any saw cuts...

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Northern Virginia
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    I have six back saws, two Bad Axe (14" x-cut sash and 16" rip tenon), two LN (10" rip dovetail and 12" x-cut carcase) plus a couple of old Disstons. I flat out love the two Bad Axe saws - they cut like a hot knife through melted butter. The LNs are nice saws, but they just don't quite feel and cut like the Bad Axes.

    They certainly weren't cheap, and I'll admit there is a certain about of "I'm worth it" that went into buying them, but it was nice to be able to specify every aspect of the saw, and they are a joy to look at and use. I don't regret buying them for a moment and am likely going to buy one of his dovetail saws later this year.

    He does offer sharpening as a service. I sent him my father's old saws to be sharpened last Fall and got them back better than they had ever been. He quotes a standard price of $45 for Jointing, Sharpening & Setting. That's part of his restoration services for old saws, so I don't know if he has a lower price if you are sending one of his saws in to be resharpened.
    - Mike

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    So Cal
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    Aaron,
    I cannot speak to the quality of Bad Axe saws, however, their reputation is stellar (their price is not). I have both a Dovetail and Carcase saw from Winsor and am quite pleased with them. He is using the same quality steel as other top saw makers but at a similar price point with LN which is what attracted me, while still crafting a saw to your specifications. Additionally, I have an LN "Thin Plate" tenon saw that I truly appreciate but it is a bit more of a "finesse" tool than a non-thin plate tenon saw (though it cuts fast), some woodworkers love 'em, some not so much; probably not the first choice for a production environment (the plate does not dissipate heat build-up as well as a thicker plate but then hand-tools really are not about high production anyway. I also have an LN "Thin Plate" dovetail saw that I really enjoy and it has become my "go to dovetail saw" with the Winsor being my number two (out of four). I find the geometry of my Winsor and LN dovetail saws to be similar making it easy to switch between the two (this is not the case with my Adria). I also like the Fiddleback Walnut tote offered as an option on the Winsor saws. It's nice to be able to have so many quality choices these days - happy hunting!

  8. #23
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    Jun 2012
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    Lubbock, Tx
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    Given the caveat that I'm new into all of this not to be in any way an expert but I do have a Bad Axe so I thought I'd throw in my two pesos. What ended up being worth it to me to buy the Bad Axe was the wealth of information that Mark has. That level of information and craftsmanship offers one very unique thing - a saw that can be very much customized to the uses you encounter with it. He also stands behind his products extremely well. My saw is filed with one of his 'hybrid' filings so it has allowed me to get away with one saw for both rip and cross very admirably. (Actually, get along to well with it - I'm dying to get another because the things so darn pretty but can't justify the need lol)

  9. #24
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    Apr 2009
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    I was strictly a japanese pull saw user until I ordered and received my 16" tenon saw. I love it, but I am still adjusting to sawing western style. Maybe I need to look up the show, "Sawing for Teens?"
    Shawn

    "a little mayhem breaks up the ennui of everyday life"
    "be the change you want to see in the world"
    "adventure is hardship seen from a distance"

  10. #25
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    Oct 2010
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    Doe Run, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    How does a user adjust saw plate straightness on a saw with a slotted back? It's pretty easy to adjust the spine on a folded back.

    I don't know if there's a need for users to pay extra for a folded back, but they aren't the same.
    I make my saws with slotted spines. I can't speak for other makers, but on the saws I build, something went seriously wrong if the blade needs to be adjusted in the slot.

    First, a little background on how I build my saws. Before the blade is installed in the spine, I squeeze the slot shut. When I pound the spine into place, the blade bottoms out in the slot, and is held there by friction. A lot of friction. The fit is, for all practical purposes, permanent. I have occasionally needed to remove the blade from the spine; in about a third of these instances, the plate is sacrificed in the violent struggle for liberation.

    Before a saw leaves my shop, I check the blade against a surface plate to ensure that it is planar. If the blade, at some point in the future, becomes non-planar, it is due to one of three causes: a twist or bend in the spine, or a bent/kinked plate. The first two can be remedied by straightening the spine, while the third cause probably requires that the plate be replaced.

  11. #26
    I have 4 LN backsaws and I like them all. I sent 2 of them in for resharpening and they returned them to me super quick and in new condition. They resharpen them super cheap (basically covers their shipping). That I why I bought their saws.
    that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you...
    1 Thessalonians 4:11

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isaac Smith View Post
    I make my saws with slotted spines. I can't speak for other makers, but on the saws I build, something went seriously wrong if the blade needs to be adjusted in the slot.

    First, a little background on how I build my saws. Before the blade is installed in the spine, I squeeze the slot shut. When I pound the spine into place, the blade bottoms out in the slot, and is held there by friction. A lot of friction. The fit is, for all practical purposes, permanent. I have occasionally needed to remove the blade from the spine; in about a third of these instances, the plate is sacrificed in the violent struggle for liberation.

    Before a saw leaves my shop, I check the blade against a surface plate to ensure that it is planar. If the blade, at some point in the future, becomes non-planar, it is due to one of three causes: a twist or bend in the spine, or a bent/kinked plate. The first two can be remedied by straightening the spine, while the third cause probably requires that the plate be replaced.
    I understand that everyone does it basically, except maybe TFWW and is wenzloff even still making saws?

    From a business standpoint, it makes a lot more sense to make slotted backs than it does to bend. I can imagine it would be a total bear to get the blade out of a brass slot that's precisely milled.

    I don't think it's a matter of a maker making a saw that needs to be adjusted by a user, rather a saw that needs to be adjusted by a user due to abuse (hopefully by another user).
    Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

  13. #28
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    Dec 2012
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    Columbus Ohio
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    Hey, thanks for the input everybody. I ended up going with a small custom saw maker, blackburn tools (http://blackburntools.com) I think their saws are better looking than any of the commercial saws out there. There were some really good reviews on another forum. Plus, they offer a 1 year no questions warranty. They even have a better price than bad axe, though that isnt really hard to do. Thanks again

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Walters View Post
    Hey, thanks for the input everybody. I ended up going with a small custom saw maker, blackburn tools (http://blackburntools.com) I think their saws are better looking than any of the commercial saws out there. There were some really good reviews on another forum. Plus, they offer a 1 year no questions warranty. They even have a better price than bad axe, though that isnt really hard to do. Thanks again
    Excellent! I hadn't seen his site before. He posts his saws here sometimes. He makes very nice looking saws. Looks like there is lots of good stuff on his site!
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  15. #30
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    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
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    I have a few of the Lie-Nielsen saws and really don't care for the steel they use in their plate. I would much rather have the basic high carbon spring steel of old. Has anyone got, or compiled a list of current saw makers ? It seems that Eccentric is gone, along with Medallion, and I've emailed Wentzlof with no response . Bad axe was quick to respond, but his website is a little to slick for my tastes. It does appear that he gets very high praise for his product though. I do think that he is the only one pricing his work to stay viable in the market even though most complain about the cost. I am very interested in any pointers for current makers, though I know it is subject to change daily.
    thanks,
    peter

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