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Thread: Bad Axe saws worth it? Anyone try Winsor saws?

  1. #31
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    Howdy Peter,

    Welcome to the Creek. Your profile doesn't show your location. You might live close to another member who would be happy to let you test drive their saws. Mine are mostly rehabs, so not much could be learned about modern makers, but you could see what the different tooth profiles and such contribute to a saw cutting.

    Bad axe was quick to respond, but his website is a little to slick for my tastes.
    Hey, as long as he is selling some slick saws he may as well have a slick site, no?

    Most likely someone else did his web page design.

    My other suggestion would be to start a with new post to avoid this one getting lost at the end of another "what's my best choice" thread.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #32
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    I must apologize. I confused Winsor Saws with a cheap English brand. The Winsor saws look perfectly nice.

  3. #33
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    Mar 2009
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    Just curious, why aren't the gramercy saws on your consideration list. I love mine fwiw.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    I have a few of the Lie-Nielsen saws and really don't care for the steel they use in their plate. I would much rather have the basic high carbon spring steel of old. Has anyone got, or compiled a list of current saw makers ? It seems that Eccentric is gone, along with Medallion, and I've emailed Wentzlof with no response . Bad axe was quick to respond, but his website is a little to slick for my tastes. It does appear that he gets very high praise for his product though. I do think that he is the only one pricing his work to stay viable in the market even though most complain about the cost. I am very interested in any pointers for current makers, though I know it is subject to change daily.
    thanks,
    peter
    Hi Peter

    Welcome.

    The fact that BA replied so quickly reflects the high standard of customer service. Everything I have heard about Bad Axe has been out of the top drawer.

    The likely reason that Wenzloff have not replied is that Mike has been ill - better now I hear - but working hard to fill backlog.

    Both Eccentric and Medalion had prices that were considerably higher than other custom sawmakers. In my opinion, these prices reflected the time required for a true custom saw, and comparable with a custom plane maker.

    I agree with Sean, place Gramercy on your list. I have their dovetail and sash saws, and these are superbly made, light and balanced in the hand. I have saws by Wenzloff, LN, LV, Independence Tools, and have made several of my own, along with several vintage UK and US, so can say this with some experience.

    Regads from Perth

    Derek

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Victoria, BC
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    1,506
    I have a bad axe sash saw I bought used from a Creeker. Fantastic saw. I have sent Mark email concerning the saw and he has answered them promptly and graciously. Guess who I am buying my next saw from? I also bought a set of his bench hooks as a Christmas present to myself from my wife (!) and they arrived promptly, very happy with them.
    I really like the fact that you can order a handle to fit your hands. With my massive mitts that is a definite plus.
    Paul

  6. #36
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    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Walters View Post
    I'm confident the bad axe saws are great, I just hesitate because they are basically twice the price of my other options.... I don't mind to shell out the coin for bad axe if they truly are worth it, but I'd rather save that extra money for another tool. Thoughts, ideas???
    Aaron, I live in Worthington, North End, just inside 270. I own a couple of saws, including two from Bad Axe, and one from LN. If you want to give them a try, let me know.

  7. #37
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    Jan 2013
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    Williamstown,ma
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    No intention of slighting Gramercy, or any other. Just a little hard to corral whatever is out there, hence my idea for a list of current makers. I would like to know ALL the options, as I am actively pursuing the options.
    peter

  8. #38
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    As a side note..... When I ordered my Bad Axe saws, I told them the types and thickness of wood that I expected to use. I never bothered to check the specs on how the blade was cut (pitch, rake, etc), but they cut well, and they are the easiest saws I have to start. My newly sharpened LN probably cuts faster after the cut is started, but it requires more skill to start. For me, a more aggressive saw is more likely to catch and jump when I start the cut. One time, when it jumped, it jumped onto my finger. It hurt, drew some blood, but was not horrid. My only point is that your skill level may indicate that you prefer one saw to another.

    Since you live in Columbus Ohio, I know that you can wander into one of our great local stores and even handle some different saws. I was just in the local Woodcraft today, and they carry the Lee Valley saws, which are widely regarded, and they should also have a Rob Cosman saw, which is probably a similar price (I don't remember). One thing about the Rob Cosman saw is that it has a variable pitch specifically to make it easier to start a cut. I vaguely remember that LN may offer that as well.

    Interested in what you ended up with, or what you do end up with.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    I have a few of the Lie-Nielsen saws and really don't care for the steel they use in their plate. I would much rather have the basic high carbon spring steel of old. Has anyone got, or compiled a list of current saw makers ? It seems that Eccentric is gone, along with Medallion, and I've emailed Wentzlof with no response . Bad axe was quick to respond, but his website is a little to slick for my tastes. It does appear that he gets very high praise for his product though. I do think that he is the only one pricing his work to stay viable in the market even though most complain about the cost. I am very interested in any pointers for current makers, though I know it is subject to change daily.
    thanks,
    peter
    Medallion tools is out of commission now, too? What didn't you like about the LN steel (not trolling, serious question)? It's definitely different feeling under the file than most classic steel, but durable. (I have not used LN saws, but have put together several saws from parts, and replated one with 1095 also.

    I like them, though, but have none in long saws without a back. I can't bring myself to spend the money on something bigger when the old saws that are cheap are so good.
    Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak View Post
    As a side note..... When I ordered my Bad Axe saws, I told them the types and thickness of wood that I expected to use. I never bothered to check the specs on how the blade was cut (pitch, rake, etc), but they cut well, and they are the easiest saws I have to start. My newly sharpened LN probably cuts faster after the cut is started, but it requires more skill to start. For me, a more aggressive saw is more likely to catch and jump when I start the cut. One time, when it jumped, it jumped onto my finger. It hurt, drew some blood, but was not horrid. My only point is that your skill level may indicate that you prefer one saw to another.

    Since you live in Columbus Ohio, I know that you can wander into one of our great local stores and even handle some different saws. I was just in the local Woodcraft today, and they carry the Lee Valley saws, which are widely regarded, and they should also have a Rob Cosman saw, which is probably a similar price (I don't remember). One thing about the Rob Cosman saw is that it has a variable pitch specifically to make it easier to start a cut. I vaguely remember that LN may offer that as well.

    Interested in what you ended up with, or what you do end up with.
    I won't go far as to say I'm skilled with a backsaw but I've used 'em plenty. When I think of somebody who is, people like Ian Kirby come to mind.

    That said, I had the L-N dovetail saw and sold it in pretty short order. I could not stand its grabby start and I've never experienced quite anything like it with another saw - crosscut or rip. I have a Crown closed handle dovetail saw that frankly cuts better and did so out of the box. Yep, it's filed crosscut. It sure as hell starts easier and given that the joint is pretty much made or lost at the start it pained me not at all to sell the L-N. I have a Spear and Jackson 12" tenon saw filed rip that starts like butta' so it isn't the rip vs. crosscut bit in play.
    Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 02-04-2013 at 1:18 PM.

  11. #41
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    LN's saw is zero rake, or so I've read. Anyone with one that's too aggressive can mute the rake with a light touch of a file at 10 or 15 degrees on the first couple of inches of teeth.

    Given that they sell a large number of their tools to beginners, I don't understand why they sell a zero rake dovetail saw. Maybe they're trying to win a race.
    Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    LN's saw is zero rake, or so I've read. Anyone with one that's too aggressive can mute the rake with a light touch of a file at 10 or 15 degrees on the first couple of inches of teeth.

    Given that they sell a large number of their tools to beginners, I don't understand why they sell a zero rake dovetail saw.
    I've heard that too, but I don't think its the case. My LN 15ppi rip carcass looks more like 10 degrees of rake, and the saws I've used at there shows sure didn't feel like 0 rake. I wonder if they used to be and then changed it at some point. I think my saw is like 3-4 years old.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 02-04-2013 at 1:08 PM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  13. #43
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    Maybe...they'd get a lot of saws back if they were all zero rake.
    Unleaded tastes a little tangy, supreme is kinda sour, and diesel tastes pretty good.

  14. Didn't look like zero rake but probably close which is frankly absurd. I mean, how fast do you really need to make a 3/4" long cut (or less, on average)? I think it needed to be jointed too. I ended up making money on the thing - a few bucks at least. Good riddance. That saw and an infernal skew rabbet plane with an A-2 blade that must have been off the charts hard. It came dull and it stayed dull. I couldn't put a scratch on it. I wanted to like it. I didn't care much for the brass parts on the plane either.
    Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 02-04-2013 at 1:43 PM.

  15. #45
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    Well, I believe these saws to have about 10 degrees of rake from looking at the geometry of the teeth. What I don't like about the saw is the following: there is set in the rip saw, which from what I've gathered shouldn't be there on a saw that is only going to be cutting about 1" deep in most cases. The set is done in such a way, that the cheek of the tooth rubs the wood - set in the middle of the tooth not the leading edge like normal. So, tracking and cutting a clean line are more than just difficult. The blade seems to have a chromium content- never seen a blade so shiny when new, and still the same after about 5 years. A plain carbon spring steel is the best blade material for a saw. I have used dozens and dozens of old saws, and none of them have these issues even when getting a bit dull. Also, this steel just doesn't get SHARP like carbon steel. I have tried to get it cutting better, but this steel just mushrooms back a heavy wire edge when filed. Good steel will never do that, you will get very minimal wire edge with carbon steel, and it practically rubs right off.
    Also, the handle is hung on the saw way too high, it should be lower and behind the cut not on top. If I hold this saw in optimal control sawing position, the lower horn is in the heel of my palm, not exactly comfortable.
    so those are a few of my observations on the LN dovetail saw.
    peter

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