Hammer, Sawstop or Grizzly TS ?- aka not another TS thread!

[Charlie Watson]

Sorry folks but yes this is another request for opinions on table saws. I've read the recent posts on sawstop, both for and against. Here is how I rank them in my mind and how I'm leaning and wanted to get input.

#1 Hammer K3 Winner - Everything I've seen and read has been positive but granted, I haven't found that much on it. I'll see it live next week but so far it has the lead in my thinking. Looks to be a very high quality saw. What can you guys tell me about Hammer and this saw?

#2 SawStop PCS - Lots of positives, plenty of lovers (and haters), I like the safety feature. Maybe a few quality issues here and there

#3 Grizzly - Not sure which model yet. Seems to be a very good saw with great customer service. Very reasonably priced. Some potential quality issues out of the box (I know many have had great experiences)

This is less about the cost differential and more about quality. I'm looking for a high quality machine that is very accurate. I think these are all grouped pretty close together but I give the edge to Hammer because of quality.

Your thoughts?

[David Kumm]

Tough to make a direct quality comparison as the machines are apples and oranges. A stationary saw with a one piece table allows for a heavier and easier to manufacture trunnion system than a slider. With a slider it is all about the table accuracy. How does it stay in position with wood and sheet goods dropped on it. How does the crosscut fence stay at 90 over and over and particularly when taken on and off a dozen times a day. The way you use the two types of saws are so different that you need to assess the way you intend to work and then decide which quality of slider or which quality of traditional you want. Quality always costs money. All may be good for their price but a 2000 grizzly won't be a 3000 sawstop any more than a SS can be a 10K Northfield #4- the last US traditional saw. A Hammer is a great saw for the money but an entry level slider. The sliding mechanisms get better with price. For a traditional, if someone can tell you who has the best motor, electrics, bearings, the finest grain heavily ribbed cast iron and thickest steel you will know who makes the best quality saw. You really need to look at them both with a machine guy to judge. Even so it may turn out they all cut the same. Dave

[mreza Salav]

As Dave said these are different classes of machines. Grizzly has a big line and you haven't specified what type you are talking about.
A slider is good at cross cutting and if you go to a bigger slider you can safely rip pretty much everything without getting anywhere close to the blade (using straight line rip).
On smaller sliders you might still need to rip using the fence. Among the options you have listed, if money isn't an issue I'd pick either Hammer or SS depending on the type of work you do.
Both are quality machines and pretty much everybody who has any of them is quite happy with them; both are safer and more modern saws.

[Mark Carlson]

Ten years ago I was in the market. I started out wanting a Unisaw, then a Powermatic 66 and finally bought a General 650. So I know what your going through. If I was to upgrade it would be a European style like the Hammer or the SawStop. Everything I read is the SawStop is a high quality saw and I'd want the brake feature. If you like sliders the Hammer is a good one, so I've heard. No direct experience. I do have a Hammer 31 jointer/planner and wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again. Getting a new saw of this type is really cool. Have fun.

~mark

[Hank Hill]

I'm about to make a sliding table saw purchase in the next couple of days and I've been riding in the same boat as you. I started out considering the SawStop and have completely abandoned that idea, as I'd rather get more out of my saw than an expensive safety mechanism for the price. The Grizzly entry level unit has a great price but the quality just isn't there. Now I'm lost in the world of Mini-Max and Felder but the long lead times on units like the Hammer and having a hard time buying blades pretty much ruled that out.

[James Baker SD]

Now I'm lost in the world of Mini-Max and Felder but the long lead times on units like the Hammer and having a hard time buying blades pretty much ruled that out.

The lead time goes by faster than you would think. Don't let that stop you from getting the saw you want.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I'm pretty biased, just to get that out of the way right up front, I wouldn't trade my Felder for anything else without a fight. I can only say great things about Felder, and by association, Hammer's customer support and quality. It should be, because you pay a premium for the machines, but you get something that no American style saw can offer. It takes a commitment to a different working style to use a slider effectively, but once you buy in, it's a light bulb moment.

Most companies will make their blades fit the saws. Forrest does, I use them, as well as a couple Felder and Hammer blades. The pin configuration is for braking. Hit the off button and the blades stop right now. I would guess 3 seconds to full stop on my machine. Scoring units are not an after thought. If you judge the amount of cast iron in a unisaw trunion as a lot in a saw, prepare to be wowed by the Felder, and I think Hammer designs. Everything is just more refined on the Euro sliders. Kind of like comparing a 70's era muscle car to your favorite modern European sportscar. The muscle car is a one trick pony, the DBS or whatever is nicely refined to handle elegantly in multiple situations.

The lead time on the machines can be long. You can buy a stock machine at times though, and significantly shorten the time. If you choose not to, the machine is made to your spec when you order it, and there are a pile of options.

You can guess which way I'd recommend, but do yourself a favor and see one in person first. The machines are great salesmen.

[John Piwaron]

Had the sales people been a little quicker, had tool availability been better, I'd have bought one. Maybe that'll improve eventually.

Sawstop is an excellent saw. Ignoring anything other than the quality of the merchandise, this saw is going to do what you or anyone else needs a saw to do.

I went with a Delta Unisaw, the new design. People talk about parts availability in the future, but honestly, the top of Delta's line is so robust, I doubt that much of anything is going to wear out or break in it for many, many years. That's a statement that's true of most manufacturer's best offerings.

[johnny means]

I have Hammer saw/shaper and a Sawstop ICS. IMO, the Sawstop is a better built machine and will withstand a lifetime of abuse. On the other hand, the Hammer is a fine entry level machine with much more capability. Personally, i feel as though comparing the two is like comparing an f250 to a minivan. Two completely different machines. The first thing that needs to be determined is what your doing with it, hauling kids or hauling lumber.

[Ole Anderson]

I have had the G1023 for 15 years and never had a problem, although I am running an HTC fence (no longer available). For the price of Hammer or Saw stop you can get two or three Grizzly machines. Something to think about, although I hear there are folks that don't need any more machines...

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm about to make a sliding table saw purchase in the next couple of days and I've been riding in the same boat as you. I started out considering the SawStop and have completely abandoned that idea, as I'd rather get more out of my saw than an expensive safety mechanism for the price. The Grizzly entry level unit has a great price but the quality just isn't there. Now I'm lost in the world of Mini-Max and Felder but the long lead times on units like the Hammer and having a hard time buying blades pretty much ruled that out.

Hank, any saw supplier will supply blades for your Felder/Hammer machine, they aren't hard to find at all.

When I bought mine I had most of my old blades bored out for under $20 per blade.

regards, Rod

[Jeff Monson]

Your thoughts?

My thoughts would be 1st and foremost, what type of woodworking are you into? Do you mainly build furniture and crafts? Do you do alot of cabinet work? Having owned both a slider and cabinet saw, I can tell you they are different birds. Each is better than the other in certain area's. You really cant compare the machines as its not apples to apples, you should decide on the fruit you like best, then decide on the variety.

[Hank Hill]

In reality, I'm sure the little Grizzly G0623X with a 5' slide would do everything I asked it to do but I've vowed to always try and avoid cheap tools, even though $3k is only cheap in perspective to the alternatives. I've found some owners that are happy with the saw, but only after they fought it for awhile in tweaks and adjustments.

I'm sure you're right James about the time melting by but the Felder/Hammer sales staff have stopped returning calls and e-mails so I'm not going to bother any further with them. The Hammer K3 series had a nice capability for the price point but the options compound the price quickly.

I'm now considering the Mini-Max S315 Elite S, which is overkill for what I'm going to be doing, but I can get a pretty good discount on one locally that was a display model. I won't even be able to use the full 10.5' stroke today and Ole Anderson is right that I could buy two or three Grizzly's for the same price. I dont have as many 1" arbor blades so I'd still have to fork out for some new blades with a MM purchase, as most of what I have is the typical 5/8" arbor.

My decision is stuck between two roads: take the value path with a practical Grizzly for broke and get the last saw of my days at three times the weight, price, and quality. It's hardly even fair to compare the two and I can't take a deterministic approach, as I'll be ultimately working with solid and sheet stock in an avid hobbyist fashion. Argh!

[Hank Hill]

I guess I should ask if there anyone who's made the move from a lower end unit like a Grizzly or maybe even Hammer to a Felder/Mini-Max? Even if you weren't in the shop 40 hours a week, would you still do it again?

[Dave Novak]

I guess I should ask if there anyone who's made the move from a lower end unit like a Grizzly or maybe even Hammer to a Felder/Mini-Max? Even if you weren't in the shop 40 hours a week, would you still do it again?

I bought a Minimax CU 300 Smart Combo. Wouldn't hesitate to do it again and will never own a traditional cabinet saw again. I've retired my miter saws as they just aren't necessary anymore.