Wood Magazine to Test Whole Shop Cyclones

[Jim O'Dell]

When I originally posted re the upcoming Wood Magazine cyclone test, I contacted Clearvue to see if they were included. I received a reply from Clearvue today that they WERE NOT included. They said that they were going to contact Wood Magazine.

If the upcoming article is truly meant to represent the cyclone choices available to woodworkers from major manufacturers I do not understand how Clearvue can be left out. Yes, I own a Clearvue as do so many other Creekers. And yes, I am happy with it. Among knowledgeable woodworkers ClearVue is a major player and the only cyclone purely based on ill Pentz's design.

I have no connection whatsoever to Clearvue.

Paul, didn't I read early on in this thread from Jim Becker, that the magazine usually tries to buy the systems "incognito" so the companies couldn't send in a juiced machine? If that is correct, then CV/Oneida/Grizzly/Penn State/etc wouldn't know if they are included or not. I think that is the best way to get the machines. It also gives the overall experience of the purchase from ordering to delivery to how the company takes care of issues that crop up. The over all experience. Two of my top 3 most expensive wood shop purchases have had a little hitch in them. I don't worry about something that happens so much as how the company takes care of it. In both instances I was thoroughly impressed with the company's handling of the issue. And yes, one of them was with my Clear Vue. The other was with my Grizzly 691. No hassle, just taken care of in a timely and professional manner.

My one hope in this shootout is that each of the manufacturer's recommendation for the ducting is followed. ie, don't use 8" pipe on a system that is designed for 6", and vice versus. Also, use the same duct path design for each so that each machine has the same number of and angle of wyes/els/pipe length/and tool & hoods. In other words, make this a level playing field. And then do their best to present the same load to each machine. I somehow think that these real world measurements will be hard to do. It would be a major undertaking. My bet is that they will probably be measuring CFM, what gets past the collection bin, and very little past that. But we can hope. Jim. (who does have a connection to Clear Vue, but no stake in the company financially.)

[Paul Wunder]

Jim Becker and Jim O'Dell: You are both gentlemen that I hold in high regard and I hope that you are correct about the "blind purchases" approach being the reason for Clearvue not knowing whether they are included in the test. I know that Oneida is included because a picture of their V series collector was shown being tested "as a teaser."

I reached out to the Wood Magazine Editors through their forum and the forum moderator Matt Seiler said he would ask one of the editors about ClearVue and get back to me. He also said that if the report were to be coming up in the next issue then all testing would have been done months ago. If I do find out any further info, I will report back.

I sort of got passionate about this because I see how we all struggle for good information on dust control and we find that effective solutions can cost many times the cost of much of our major equipment in our shop. It was through the Creek, four years ago when I joined and through extensive help from folks like you and other Creekers that I was able to make good choices to protect my health.

[Michael W. Clark]

I hope CV is included as well. It would be interesting to see how they compare in the "tests".

[Michael W. Clark]

I've been thinking about this and here is how I would test the units. Obviously, it doesn't matter what I think, the testing is probably already completed. The way I would approach it is more of a comparison and presentation of performance and features, instead of a contest.

First, I would note all the accessories provided, notable features, the filter area, filter media, and measure the pressure drop across the filters at a given CFM.

Then, I would remove the filters and place a length of duct or "no-loss" stack to the outlet of the fan. Mainly to make the fan outlet SP essentially 0"wg. Next, I would connect a test setup to the cyclone inlet. The test setup would have a port about 2 diameters away from the inlet to take SP and flow readings. There would be a blast gate about 6-8 diameters away, then a bellmouth inlet after that. With this setup, you can vary the blast gate opening, record the flow and inlet SP. This would generate a CFM vs. ESP curve. ESP is external static pressure. A user could then measure the DP between the cyclone inlet and fan outlet on their system at home, look this value up on the curve/chart and read the flow. This way as systems are modified and filters get dirtier, you could still find the flow if you have the chart and the DP reading.

The next thing I would do is measure the cyclone collection efficiency by introducing a fixed dust loading and weighing what was captured. It would be important to use dust from the same source for each of the models. This would likely take most of the time as you have to allow the sytem to stabilize or you will get efficiency measurements all over the map. Probably need continuous runs at least 1-2 hours long and multiple ones to ensure repeatable results.

The write-up would be the specs and accessories list, CFM vs. ESP table and how to use it, collection efficiency, and current retail price. A brief descrption and/or sketch of the test setups would also need to be included.

If readers had the short articles leading up to this discussing the basics, then they would deffinitely get more out of the test results.

Mike

[Paul Wunder]

Below is the response I received, in full, from the Editor of Wood Magazine as to why the Clearvue was not included in their testing. For the record, I never asked about "advertising policy", but other folks obviously did:

"Thanks for your interest in our review of dust collectors. Let me clear up a few things.



First off, whether a manufacturer advertises in WOOD Magazine has no bearing on their inclusion in our tool reviews. Of the manufacturers in the recent clamp test, only DeWalt is an advertiser. Same with the compact routers reviewed prior to that. It’s a common misconception that only advertisers are included, or that only advertisers earn Top Tool or Top Value awards. I can’t speak for other magazines, but at WOOD it’s simply not true. The truth has been right there in print for the past 28 years if you want to check it for yourself.



Now, to the question about Clear Vue: When we began acquiring dust collectors for the upcoming review, Clear Vue did not have a machine in the price range that is the focus of the review. Since we completed testing, though, several included models went up in price, raising the range up to where Clear Vue could have been included. However, at that point, it was too late to include them in our tests.


Thanks for understanding.
Bob Hunter
Tools Editor
WOOD Magazine "

[steven c newman]

ANY review by WOOD, I take with a truck sized grain of salt. Only time I even look in on the place, is if I need a laugh or two. Their's seem a bit "Biased" according to what is used By a certain few on the site. I've read a few of them, and LOL! Seems like they have a "winner" picked out before the review is even begun ( on most of the reviews I have seen) and skew things to make it win. "Not in the Price range of our review" seems to happen a few times, to things that might beat out their chosen winner. BTDT

[Jim Becker]

While there are obviously limits to the number of permutations and products they can test for a review, I've personally witnessed how Wood does it and they really do have a sound methodology and make efforts to do the best they can to provide useful information and results.

[Phil Thien]

Now, to the question about Clear Vue: When we began acquiring dust collectors for the upcoming review, Clear Vue did not have a machine in the price range that is the focus of the review. Since we completed testing, though, several included models went up in price, raising the range up to where Clear Vue could have been included. However, at that point, it was too late to include them in our tests.

Should have call 'em, I'm sure they could have arranged to charge you more.

[Andy Fox]

Not including a model which is comparable to others tested yet cheaper is an oversight which is hard to overlook.

[Michael W. Clark]

Now, to the question about Clear Vue: When we began acquiring dust collectors for the upcoming review, Clear Vue did not have a machine in the price range that is the focus of the review. Since we completed testing, though, several included models went up in price, raising the range up to where Clear Vue could have been included. However, at that point, it was too late to include them in our tests.

Maybe I am missing something. The cheapest Oneida V series is $1286 (someone said earlier that was on the teaser). The cheapest CV1800 is $1385. So $100 put them out of the game? Even if there had been a 10% price increase by Oneida, $220 put them out of the game? That don't make no sense..

I don't own either one, just find it interesting..

[Matt Meiser]

How much we're both when they started their testing?

And a CV is more like $1600 with filters plus it looks like some other necessities are extra (I.e. the drum). Most others are sold complete.

[Rick Moyer]

Below is the response I received, in full, from the Editor of Wood Magazine as to why the Clearvue was not included in their testing. For the record, I never asked about "advertising policy", but other folks obviously did:

"Thanks for your interest in our review of dust collectors. Let me clear up a few things.






Now, to the question about Clear Vue: When we began acquiring dust collectors for the upcoming review, Clear Vue did not have a machine in the price range that is the focus of the review. Since we completed testing, though, several included models went up in price, raising the range up to where Clear Vue could have been included. However, at that point, it was too late to include them in our tests.


Thanks for understanding.
Bob Hunter
Tools Editor
WOOD Magazine "

Not including a model which is comparable to others tested yet cheaper is an oversight which is hard to overlook.

I think the "Wood" response was that the "tested" models were less than any Clear Vue models available, not the other way around.

[Jim O'Dell]

Well, that's disappointing, but we don't know the price range parameters they set for the article. If they are testing lower priced units, then it shouldn't be included just to be included. I want them to compare apples to apples. What we can hope is that they will do another article in the near future that will be machines in the next range up that would include the CV unit. Jim.

[John Donofrio]

Sweet. Can't wait to see it. I hope to be in the market for one soon.

[Mark Carlson]

I was interested until I read that the Clearvue machine wasn't included. This is the cyclone I'm most interested in buying.