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Thread: Order of Operations in Case Work

  1. #1
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    Order of Operations in Case Work

    I'm working on a small-medium sized cabinet at the moment (about 40" tall by 20" wide). I've got the stock prepped for the case, and in thinking about moving forward am struggling with the same VERY basic thing that I struggle with more than anything else in handtool work. That is figuring out what the best order to do things in is.

    For this particular case, the are 4 types of joints to potentially be completed in any order.

    - The top of the case will be joined to the sides with half blind dovetails (Don't worry Zach and Dave, the pins are on top and will hide the endgrain of the tails, and the tails are on the side so that endgrain will hide behind moldings)

    - The bottom shelf (which is also more or less the bottom of the main case will be joined the sides with a sliding dovetail

    - The other 3 shelves will sit in shallow dados

    - I need to cut rabbets on the back of the top and sides of the case for the back to eventually rest in.


    What I've done in the past is using the back edges as my reference surfaces layout all the critical interior joinery on both case sides a the same time: the shoulders for the dados/sliding dovetail, the baselines for the dovetails, and the also the rabbet before I do any cutting. I then cut the rabbet, followed by the dados, and end with the dovetails/sliding dovetails. I do the dovetails/sliding dovetails last because as soon as those are fit I want to glueup the case. My thinking being that if I do them first and the then the rest of the interior, I run the risk of having to refit them later and/or having to assemble/disassemble them more times then is ideal.

    I am curious how other folks would order their operations on a project like this (or any casework) in terms of both layout and actual execution of the joinery. Any reasoning for you order of operations or for an alternative to my order of operations mentioned above would also be appreciated. This is the kind that rarely covered in books/mags and no matter how much I build (which isn't all that much) its the one thing I lack the most confidence in. I feel like I'm just always figuring it out as I go....

    I look forward to a discussion as lively as the recent chipbreaker threads
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  2. #2
    I think I did basically what you described. I would add one thing that I thought was good. Before laying anything out I clamped my two sides together and planed all 4 edges to be exactly the same all the way around. Then i marked all the middle joints at the same time. I figured that at least everything should line up if not perfectly square.
    that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you...
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for responding Bob! I was getting worried I'd only get crickets on this. Glad to here that my order of ops is what someone else is doing as well. I actually mark out the center to. I don't do the clamping of everything together, but I marked and plane my pieces all to the same the same width. What I focus on is making sure my 3 reference faces (one face, one edge, and one end) are true and square. As long as everything is aligned and marked out from those it ensures alignment even if other aspects are imperfect.

    Anyone else have an opinion here? Come on folks! I know many of you are better woodworkers than I...I've seen your work. This is actually a furniture making question. Would it help if I asked what plane I should by next?

    Beuller, Bueller, Bueller?
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 01-17-2013 at 6:57 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #4
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    +1 to Bob's message. I'd go about it in the same way. I'm curious, though, why you would need a sliding dovetail on the bottom board. Is there not a true bottom, or is the shelf itself the bottom? If the shelf itself is the bottom, you could use through dovetails and cover it up with a molding. This is classic case construction.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  5. #5
    I would do the joinery on the outside and then mark the shelves afterward, though for something like shelves I don't know that it matters that much.

    If I was working with power tools, I would lay everything out at the outset. If we were smart, we'd put it together with handtools and sneak the groove in the back with a router. What are you putting in the back?

    It's funny that you're building something this size. I am mid-process in a similar piece, but it's just supposed to be a functional bookcase for my daughter, it's turned out to be about 44x28 (horizontal), and I will hide the HBDT at the top with mouldings also (through dovetails at the bottom sitting in rabbeted base to hide those, too), but I haven't yet decided what they'll look like or how I'll attach them to the back of the case if they are glued on in the front (my case will be deep, almost 13" to the back rabbet - the mouldings will be something substantial). In my case, the shape was dictated by the wife and rather than segment the thing into four parts (because of the length of the shelf) I think I'm just going to put top 3/4ths depth dividers top and bottom in stopped dados. Then maybe they won't look so garish once the thing is full of books.

    I would so much rather build tools! I'm dumb as a doornail with furniture, but I just don't enjoy it very much - maybe that's why.

    I'm sure there's accepted practice for steps, but I'll never build the same thing a second time so it's not like we're going to build a routine. The nice thing about working with hand tools is the work more or less stays in front of you and it turns up the way you visualize it turning up, as opposed to marking a whole bunch of stuff with measurements at the beginning, cutting everything and then hoping it all fits and that you didn't have a bum mark.

    It's nice to cut the HBDTs knowing that they'll be covered by mouldings. It looks better AND it's so much nicer to bang those out than it is to fiddle at them.
    Last edited by David Weaver; 01-17-2013 at 8:20 AM.

  6. #6
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    I am kind of lost here on the bottom shelf as well. If it is the bottom of the case it would have been joined by half blind dovetails as well. I like the thought of aligning all sides and planing them true before laying out the dovetail joints.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach Dillinger View Post
    +1 to Bob's message. I'd go about it in the same way. I'm curious, though, why you would need a sliding dovetail on the bottom board. Is there not a true bottom, or is the shelf itself the bottom? If the shelf itself is the bottom, you could use through dovetails and cover it up with a molding. This is classic case construction.
    Honestly the main reason is just to get some practice with sliding dovetails where they will be hidden any (as a molded base with feet will cover it). In the past I've done what you described and then attached backing to the underside to support and attach the base too. I just kinda wanted to try something different. Also, because the side will extend an inch or so past the sliding dovetailed bottom, I can attached the base to the side rather then having to build in an additional structure underneath.

    I certainly could do what you describe, again, mostly just wanted to try something new. I try to throw some basic skill building into most my projects.

    Not sure if any of that is clear. Given the the case will sit on a base it doesn't really matter how the bottom shelf is joined. Each method would need to address wood movement slightly different in how I attached the base, but other than that I don't think it really matters. I have no aversion to doing it the classical way, and its not too late to change my mind. Again just wanted to experiment with something different.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 01-17-2013 at 8:42 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Griggs View Post
    I certainly could do what you describe, again, mostly just wanted to try something new. I try to throw some basic skill building into most my projects.
    And that's a great reason to do it. I was just curious! Good luck!
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  9. #9
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    Dave, my impression is that what you described, completing the outside joinery first is what most people would do. I guess as long as the wood is square, ones layout is good and one sticks with ther layout when cutting the joints, it may not matter either way.

    My main reasons for the order I've used is really just to minimize having to take apart and put back together the dovetails (not that that's that big a deal.

    I agree it is fun to to just whiz through the dovetails when they will be covered up.

    I like the sound of your case. Making the dados stopped is a good idea. My shelves will be in stopped dados too, and also, rabbeted/lipped to cover up the dado joint - my case will have doors, so that's overkill, but I prefer that look. I haven't quite figured out my moldings yet either, other then that they'll be 1 1/4" high (as it fits the scale of the cabinet). For the moldings on the side I usually just glue the first few inches drive a brad nails down the res to the way. I've seen other ways to attached moulding with sliding dovetails, but the nails are so quick and easy and once I fill the holed with glue and sawdust they are barely noticeable. This current case is sized to hold DVDs so its only like 7" deep and therefore I can probably get away with gluing them all the way down.

    Zach, I'd be curious to here your preferred method (which I assume is historical) for attaching moldings (I've become a Zach Dillinger fan boy)
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  10. #10
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    Chris, when the molding is cross grain to the case, like a side piece of crown or base, I glue the mitered ends to each other, glue an inch or two on the cross grain piece back from the miter, then nail the piece down the rest of the way. On the with-the-grain piece, i.e. a front piece of crown or base, I'll just glue it down the whole way and only use nails if I can't get the piece clamped down enough to hold it until the glue dries. My preferred method for clamping such molding if not using hot hide glue is anything but historical... I like to use clear packing tape to "clamp" down the molding. It's easy to do and comes off clean.
    Last edited by Zach Dillinger; 01-17-2013 at 9:19 AM.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Griggs View Post
    Zach, I'd be curious to here your preferred method (which I assume is historical) for attaching moldings (I've become a Zach Dillinger fan boy)
    I'm curious, too, especially for mouldings that run a foot or so with grain perpendicular to whatever they're attached.

    Why do the work of learning if Zach can just tell us

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Why do the work of learning if Zach can just tell us
    Well, if that's the attitude, I'm just not going to post ever again!
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  13. #13
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    Okay, that's exactly what I do to attach the moldings as well, Zach. Good to know I'm doing a few things right. The one thing I do differently is when I clamp the moldings I use molding offcuts and flip them up side down facing the moldings on the case so that the shapes complement each other and give me a flat surface to clamp against. This wouldn't work with all molding profiles, but it works when you have a decent sized cove in the molding.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Why do the work of learning if Zach can just tell us

    I agree. One more question. What is the right way to spell molding?

    Is it "molding or moulding" (I say only half kidding). Maybe if your cases have rebates and housings its moulding, but if your cases have rabbets and dados its molding.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  14. #14
    We could call them "dug out grooves and router profile shaped thingies"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    We could call them "dug out grooves and router profile shaped thingies"
    That would be the politically correct name.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

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