[OP]
Contributor
I have been considering getting the Festool dust extractor. However I am wondering what great advantage Festool would be over putting a hepa filter on my shop vac, with a drywall collection bag and running a dust deputy in front of that? Am I missing something important? Cost would be much less and both just vacuum and filter. Right?
Contributor
Your idea will work. The advantage - longer term - is that the Festool machines have motors designed for continuous run and have additional cooling for the motor that does not rely on the dust laden air. The motors for the traditional "shop-vacs" while quite powerful in the larger units are just not near as durable in my experience - and dang they are LOUD!!!
The Festool unit has variable speed which can be really useful for sanding as slowing it down lets the sander glide much easier.
The Festool unit has a top surface that can be used for storing stuff - Systainers, hose garage, etc.
The Festool unit works with the boom arm - on the CT22/26 and larger units - and that boom arm is really nice to use in a shop.
The Festool unit uses multi stage filtering with the bag, primary filters, Hepa filters and carries the required Hepa approval for remodeling - lead abatement.
The Festool unit utilizes the anti-static hoses to prevent shocks, dust cling. The "shop-vac" is not designed to be conductive so an anti-static hose doesn't work.
There are other differences but those are the major ones that come to mind right now.
I have a big Home Depot vac that I keep for really nasty cleanup - like water pickup. I don't like to subject my expensive vac to that usage.
Another quality machine is the Fein Turbo II. Great suction, great motor, somewhat lower price. Doesn't have all the system advantages of the Festool due to the shape.
Last edited by Peter Kuhlman; 01-24-2013 at 8:36 AM.
Contributor
The main difference is that the Festool is a HEPA vacuum, adding a HEPA filter to a regular vacuum does not result in a HEPA vacuum.............Rod.
Contributor
Besides the points that Peter and Rod pointed out. I like to take my tools to various work sites also, the Festool vac excels very well in portability also. Not sure if that is important to you, but for me its a really nice feature.
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. My desk is a work station.
Member
One thing I noticed when my CT26 got here is the noticeable build quality differences. It the little things that all add up to a big deal. I actually look forward to using it, as weird as that is. It also has more power than my Ridgid vac, by a significant amount. Don't think anybody has mentioned that power switching that turns that vacuum on when a tool that is plugged into it is, then back off 15 seconds or so after the tool is shutdown.
Like many things . . it depends on what you do and how you do it. Better vacs like the Festools, Feins and their cousins have better motors, filtering and cool features (anti-static hose, better wheels, higher quality build overall) built in. These vacs also come with a lot more add-on accessories than the lowly shop vac. If you just need something to hookup to your sanders, routers and such that can also be used for general shop clean up, a Clean Stream in a Ridgid or a Shop-Vac will do fine.
I have a couple of Ridgid vacs with Clean Stream filters and Dust Deputy setups. The one vac is going on 9 years of service without a wrinkle. This may be because I went with better filtering right off the bat which prevents the vac from choking itself with clogs. I would not want to haul either rig around to jobs although I have hauled them indoors for dirty jobs around the house.
Last edited by glenn bradley; 01-24-2013 at 8:42 PM.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
[OP]
Contributor
Thanks for the feedback. I am not underrating the Festool as it is a great machine. Some things I had considered and some I did not.
I did not consider the boom.
I did not consider the anti-static hose.
Portability is not an issue as it will stay in the shop as I do no production work.
I did consider it would not be compact.
I do realize there is a considerable quality, noise and motor difference.
I did consider variable speed, but did think of adjusting the flow, but I am not sure if cfm relates to suction power.
I did consider the on/off and would use a Ivac.
I do not understand Rod's statement that adding a hepa filter does not make it a hepa vacuum. In my mind the final exhaust air is what is filtered and if it must pass a filter rated 99.97 efficient, then it is a hepa vacuum. May not last as long as the filter in the Festool or Fein.
So the cost to convert my shop vac would be
$20 hepa filter
$15 bag filter
$40 Dust Deputy
$50 Ivac
around a $125 as I have many shop vacs.
With the Festool being around $575 is the extras worth $450 more.
Bill
Contributor
The HEPA rating gets ugly if you are in business to do remodeling and such. The new OSHA regulations (maybe EPA) are very strict when working on older homes that have the potential to have lead based paint and asbestos. The dust collector has to be certified for that usage and just having a HEPA filter is not enough. There are many other rules that come into play also.
For personal usage you don't have to abide by the regs.
Member
Yes, for many of us it most definitely is.Originally Posted by William C Rogers
Contributor
It wasn't worth it to me. I use a Ridgid vac which is fairly quiet, an ivac and a "router speed control" to slow it down when I need to. I've used Festool vacs and my set up is just as good as long as I don't need portability - which I don't.
Save the money and use it for something else. Festool shines when you use the tools at a client's home. For in shop use they don't shine as well compared to alternatives.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Does Hepa cert mean much when you have sawdust in your shop?
Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.
Member
A Hepa filter on a shop vac wouldn't meet a full HEPA rating due to the amount of air that bypasses around the filter.
Member
No offence Steve, but I would counter that statement with this one:
No, for many of us it most definately is not.
Look, I'm a hobbiest not a professional. I do have dust collection, it's a HF with a garbage can cyclone in front of it and a Wynn Nano filter on top of it. I also have ambient air filtration. I use a reducer and use my DC when I need to plug in my sander or router. You know what, It works just fine. Oh, it's not perfect but then neither am I. I would much rather take that extra $450 and use it to buy some tool that I have wanted for a long time (believe me, it's a long list), or to put towards upgrading one of my major tools at some point. Now, I'm not saying that Festool isn't worth the price when compared to other portable vac systems, it may very well be. And, if I did woodworking for a living, I may very well buy one. I understand every single one of William's points, and you know what... I think they make perfect sense. I think too many times on this, and other similar sites, I see people recommend for people to spend the extra money on Festool without taking into consideration that not every woodworker NEEDS to have Festool. I don't have a shop vac at all! I don't NEED one. Maybe it's a status thing. Look at me I own Festool. I don't know, and I don't care. What I have works for me, and it certainly didn't cost $575. In fact, my whole DC system didn't cost $575!
William, here is my advice: If you can justify to yourself that spending almost 5 times as much is something you just have to do, or if you are a professional (or plan to be in the near future), or if you are independently wealthy, then by all means buy the Festool. If you aren't, then don't.
Sorry for the tirade and I appologize in advance to all of you Festool aficionados that are about to lambast me for my blasphemy.
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Member
Stew - I most emphatically disagree with you but would be the last to lambast you as you have expressed a personal opinion. It was well thought out, rational and supported by facts. The great thing about a free society is we all can make choices that are 'right' for us.
So here is my take on Festool. Do I NEED any of the festool tools I have - no. I am a hobbiest. I do this for fun. I have found over the decades that great tools (Festool, Lie Neilsen, etc) are more FUN for me to use - so that is why I own them. Period - end of story. I can turn out a better quality of work and enjoy it more with great tools. Those of you who can (and do) turn out fine furniture with limited tools have my respect & admiration but that is not for me.
When somebody asks this forum "is XXXX worth the $$$" there will be replies both pro & con with rationale for their opinion. Each questioner needs to take the responses and compare them against their own value system to decide what to do.
The only thing I thought a bit of a low blow was the swipe about status. Of the dozens of people who have seen my shop only one was a real WW'er who had any clue as to what they were looking at.. all the rest you get a glazed look and "that's nice". So if status was my motivation I would be better off with a Porche 911 in the driveway than a couple of grand in green tools nobody sees.
Oh and using a high-volume low-suction-head HF DC with reducer for sanding is not going to give you the air quality in your shop that a Festool vac/sander combo would - that's just a plain fact. So to me impacting my health to save a few bucks is not a good choice but you are certainly free to choose otherwise.
happy WW'ing bro
Member
Eric, I couldn't agree with you more about everyone expressing their own opinion. That is why I stated that my Spiel was a counter argument.
As for the status, comment... Yeah it might have been a bit low, but on the other hand there are always some people who have to get the latest and greatest. You know... The Joneses (or is it the people keeping up with them? whatever, you get my point). My stating it was simply part of tossing out possible reasons for buying and not buying. Between myself and the proponents of Festool, we had covered nearly every other possible reason.
As for my air quality... I am permanently disabled, in a wheelchair, and with respiratory problems. Trust me, if I can stand work out thereat all, then it's not very bad. I can't tell you how many shops I have tried to be in and couldn't stand it. Including more than one that had lots of Festool equipment. Now I'm sure that the Festool would collect more of the finer dust than my DC system does. But if, between my DC and my ambient cleaner, I can saw, plane, chop, and sand without going into bronchial shutdown then I don't NEED one.
By the way... I'll take a Porsche too.
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
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