Thinking of upgrading to SawStop

[Mike Henderson]

I have the SawStop PCS and love it. It's a great saw independent of the safety mechanism. But the safety mechanism was very important in my decision. I know that one day, I'll make a mistake and come in contact with the blade, no matter how safe I try to be. The extra cost of the SawStop was cheap compared to the cost of an injury.

All table saws should have an equivalent safety feature.

Mike

[Patrick McCarthy]

Denny,

I had a PM66, original owner, for approx 8-10 years and loved it, a lot. I liked the Made in America aspect a lot too.

I recently got the 3hp ICS due to the safety factor, but overall have been very impressed with the design and manufacture of the saw . . . the fence is good but there is a little woosh in the middle of the face, but not enough to end the love affair.

The biggest surprise to me was the "why didn't someone think of this sooner?" or, "why didn't my PM66 have this? '
The first was the arbor has a machined slot on the inside of the blade so you can use two wrenches to changes blades; on my 66 i had to block the blade or use the plastic cover (forget the manuf) to hold the blade to undo the nut.
The second, and minute in the big scheme of things, they have a hook to hang the wrenches on . . . ; on the 66 i hung the wrench on the blade height wheel, which got in the way of cranking , , ,
Third is the mobile base has 4 multi directional wheels AND a hydraulic foot pump. I can spin it 360 degrees. The mobile base on the 66 had to be "driven" into position and then locked down. The hydraulic foot pedal has a "down" or "release" lever.

The fit and finish is great. The motor is smooth. The cuts are the same as the 66. I use Forrest blades so the painted blade "issue" is not a factor.

Once i had changed blades and brake cartridges a few times (from regular to dado and back and forth) it became very easy to do. The first two times I was somewhat tentative on the amount of force to use on the brake pin release, but i think it must have had a small burr or something because it is easy enough now.

Overall very happy with it. Also, the phenolic ZCI inserts are nicely made and nicely secured (lock into place), plus easily removed too.

NOt planning on using the airbags in my car, nor the SS brake system, but very happy they are there just in case.

Plus, wife saw it at a WW show and "made" me buy it. Happy wife, happy life."

IF i had to critcize the saw at all, only two things come to mind:
1) The less than perfectly flat surface on the face of the fence . . .which i can change, but why should i have to?; and
2) with all the discussion about dust control and most machines having undersized ports, why didn't they put a 5 inch dust port on it rather than the "standard" 4 inch? It would be much easier for someone to neck-down a 5 to 4, but it would be a major pain for me to open it up to 5" . . . . which i will probably do

[mreza Salav]

cannot use painted blades on the Saw Stop.

respectfully that is not true; if you mean teflon coated blades you can certainly use them and the brake works just fine. It uses a different method of flesh detection if you touch on the side (painted section) of the blade, but still does detect it.

As for the OP quesstion: I have an ICS version and am quite happy with it and will buy it again with no hesitation.

[glenn bradley]

I don't think anyone dislikes the Saw Stop. The saw itself (safety mechanism aside) gets super ratings for quality. I have not acquired a tool that I didn't have to customize in some small way to improve dust collection as well as other tweaks to make the machine "mine". Although I am loath to spend near double what similar machines cost, I am still considering this saw.

[Craig Behnke]

if safety is a major consideration, then i'd say sawstop and a euro style sliding saw are safer than standard cabinet saw's. if safety is the the #1 factor and you aren't going to be the only user, i'd suggest a sawstop.

i recently went thru a similar purchase and considered a euro slider but went with a sawstop. in my situation, while I would be the one using the table saw 99.5% of the time, I have a wife and four daughters (two are teenagers) who actually come out and help me sometimes with certain projects. I went with a sawstop because of the blade stop feature.

Foolishly, I "trust" myself to be safe using a euro style slider, so if I knew i was the only user, I would have purchased one of those. Since others have access to my machines...and may disobey my request to use them ONLY when I am there...I could not live with myself if my wife or teenage kids used it and somehow hurt themselves. another thing is liability...maybe i'm paranoid, but I actually wanted to avoid the 1 in a million situation where one of my kid's boyfriends thought it might be cool to use the machines and wound up getting hurt. I just didn't want that potential liability on my mind.

As far as the quality, it's a solid saw, pretty impressive actually. I don't use the fence, so I can't comment on that. I use an aftermarket fence. no regrets from a hobby woodworker like me.

[John Piwaron]

I made a cabinet saw choice in spring of 2012. I was deciding between a Unisaw, the Sawstop and a slider made by Hammer. The Hammer has a good reputation but it's operation is different from a traditional American cabinet saw. In the end, the fact that I couldn't get a hands on look at one and the long lead time to get one made me give up on that one. The slow sales response didn't help either.

I was able to look hands on at a Sawstop at my local Woodcraft. I think the saw is well constructed and will certainly do the job. I also think it has too many parts. I mean, open the cover and you'll see a lot of things in there. At the time I was very concerned about that. The more stuff in there, the more stuff to go wrong. I was still absorbing the fact that General could not provide me with parts for my then current saw. So I was worried.

What I chose is the most recent version of the Delta Unisaw. I'm satisfied with it. It's great saw, but I can't say it's not without it's quirks. In my experience all devices have their idiosyncrasies. It's got as much power as I think I'll ever need. It's not overly complex, both adjustment wheels are on the front, dust collection works well. Of course, it doesn't have the blade stopping feature of the sawstop, but it's got all the rest. I ordered it from Woodcraft, but 'cause I ordered it online it was up to me to get it into my shop. Let's just say it's heavy.

Thinking about the liability point of an earlier poster - unauthorized people using the saw (or other big stationary tools) - I put a lock on all of them. A pad lock. I have the keys with me all the time. That doesn't mean some clever person won't figure out how to use it anyway or remove them. But it does mean that I did everything I could to secure them. I hope that means nobody gets hurt or that a court or insurance doesn't spank me.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have owned my 5hp ICS since 10/2006. It is an awesome machine. I have long since digested the expense. Now it is just a dream saw to own and cut with. No other NA cabinet saw will get me to change. Owning it with a Jessem slider, a bandsaw and a tracksaw, I have not found the need for the space consumption/requirements of a slider saw yet either. I do own a sliding table shaper and can appreciate the slider there but I like seperates. No issues with my fence. I do not own the overblade guard or base as those came latter but seem to be good additions. There is a guy on woodnet that made a ZCI replaceable strip insert for the sawstops and recently he told me they now work with even my older ICS. The brake interface was upgraded as well so if you own an older one then make sure you get the correct one if you replace it. I have never fired mine and do not want to. I do get some dust in my cabinet that I clean out occasionally (blow air in while the DC is on - chips fly up and into the shroud). An ICS is really heavy so consider that if putting one in a basement.

[Prashun Patel]

I love all the obvious things about my SS PCS. Some other things perhaps not mentioned:

Cons:

The dado stack requires a second brake. The perceived hassle of this has caused me to seek other ways to cut dados. Not saying I'm right, just that it's an issue for me.

If you contact an errant miter fence or jig, there's a chance of misfire and ruining a blade and brake. This adds to inconvenience and cost.

Pros:
The riving knife and guard pop in and out without a tool. This makes it super easy and convenient to switch between the two. This has encouraged me to use one or the other with every single cut, which might be more of a safety improvement for me than even the brake.

[Mike Heidrick]

Jack Colliflower is the guy who let me know about the ZCIs being retro fitted.
--------------

From: jcolliflower Hi, Mike. I remember your question and just wanted to let you know that our new design is now compatible with the older SawStops. You can see full specs on the drawing that's at my Amazon site (although none are being sold by me personally right now): Search for them on amazon. No links here on woodnet. Reference the CAD drawing in the pictures section. These can be purchased from Infinity Tools. Thanks. Jack

[Matt Meiser]

Here's the link to those on Infinity's site: http://www.infinitytools.com/SawStop...tinfo/100-335/

[Chris Fournier]

I will also chime in on the Euro slider suggestion. It is not a SawStop but it can be significantly safer than a non-SS cabinet saw. The advantages of the slider were far more important to me than the SS brake feature.

I realise that the SS could save a finger or even more and that is positive however I have several other often used pieces of equipment that are also potential flesh eaters. For more than twenty years of WWKg I have been very satisfied with my ability to avoid injury by using time honoured techniques and devices so I don't feel that the safety upgrade is as worthy of my $$$ as the performance/slight safety upgrade of a silder over a cabinet saw.

Regardless a better TS is always a treat. Enjoy your new saw.

[Wade Lippman]

- Machine unavailability (though I did just hear that a local Delta shop has a new Unisaw on the showroom floor)

Last month I ordered Delta DP and explained that I needed it within 3 weeks.
Store got back to me that Delta won't commit to a ship date, but it won't be any time soon.
Cancelled.
They don't seem to want to stay in business.

I just bought a bunch of new tools. SS got me out a damaged part immediately, but so did Grizzly. Rikon took a bit long, but I got it.
So I would say that just about everyone BUT delta has good CS.

[Wade Lippman]

I love all the obvious things about my SS PCS. Some other things perhaps not mentioned:

Cons:

The dado stack requires a second brake. The perceived hassle of this has caused me to seek other ways to cut dados. Not saying I'm right, just that it's an issue for me.

If you contact an errant miter fence or jig, there's a chance of misfire and ruining a blade and brake. This adds to inconvenience and cost.

I know what you mean about the dado. I thought maybe I could just turn it off, but you can't do that. Maybe I will pick up a RAS, cheaper than a dado break.

I once clipped an aluminum miter gauge with my Griz that would have tripped the SS; but if I am that dumb I deserve the consequences.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I will also chime in on the Euro slider suggestion. It is not a SawStop but it can be significantly safer than a non-SS cabinet saw. The advantages of the slider were far more important to me than the SS brake feature.

I realise that the SS could save a finger or even more and that is positive however I have several other often used pieces of equipment that are also potential flesh eaters. For more than twenty years of WWKg I have been very satisfied with my ability to avoid injury by using time honoured techniques and devices so I don't feel that the safety upgrade is as worthy of my $$$ as the performance/slight safety upgrade of a silder over a cabinet saw.

Regardless a better TS is always a treat. Enjoy your new saw.

I totally hear this. If Sawstop comes out with a euro-style slider, I will sell my Sawstop cabinet saw, Excalibur sliding table, and any other earthly possessions to buy one.

Sliders are great. But assuming for a second that safety is the only factor, Sawstop is hands down a safer saw than a slider. I say this over and over on this forum, but think about it: the cuts that are most likely to cause amputation are rip cuts... not cross cuts, where your hands are already far away from the blade. On a euro slider, unless you get a huge slider with an 8' stroke, you will be doing rip cuts using the rip fence. That's when you need to really worry about your fingers, and the euro sliders will cut your fingers off if you tempt it. And even if you do have a huge slider, I can't picture how you would rip a parallel side accurately without a ton of fussing.

I'm not going to discount the safety vs. functionality trade off of buying a slider over a SS. To each his own, and Chris, you clearly thought through the trade off and made the right decision for yourself.

But those who argue that that a euro slider is as safe as a Sawstop are underestimating the danger of rip cuts using their fences on the slider.

[Kevin Womer]

When I was thinking of a new table saw, I wanted either the new Delta Uni or a SS. I liked them both. I went with a SS PCS because I have read so many complaints about the customer service/parts availability issues Delta currently has. I wanted this to be the last saw I have to own, so having parts made and available were very important in my decision. I'm not going to get into the safety discussion, it has been beat to death almost as much as the political stance people have on every forum, but is nice to know I have it on my saw and I won't ever regret the choice I made. I have to say, even without the brake, I would buy it again. It has exceeded every expectation I had including the customer service of SawStop. You don't have to take my word for it, make two phone calls-one to Delta and one to SS and and ask a couple of questions to each person in regards to their respective saws and see which company makes the better impression on you. It just might make your decision a whole lot easier. Good luck to you.