Thinking of upgrading to SawStop

[Matt Meiser]

See, my theory works!

[Mark Ashmeade]

Likewise! Mine hasn't fired (nor misfired), but there's a spare waiting to go if/when it does. I took the view that the extra wouldn't be missed at the time of purchase, but would add insult to injury if I had a misfire.

[Hank Hill]

I also recommend a sliding table saw over a SawStop. I actually considered a SawStop as well and am about to complete a purchase for a slider. It's more than just a safety feature.

[Denny Rice]

[QUOTE=Carl Beckett;2049615]Dang...

........Double dang!

[Clay Fails]

I upgraded from a Delta contractors saw to a Sawstop ICS 2 years ago, and have been very happy with the Sawstop. I looked at the new Unisaw and the Powermatic PM2000 when i was shopping, and my decision came down to the overall quality of the saw. I just felt the Sawstop had superior fit, finish and features. The safety feature was "gravy", not a compelling part of the decision. To be honest, i sort of felt all the electronic bells and whistles were a negative. Knock on wood......so far i have not had any issues in that regard. YMMV!

[jerry cousins]

have had one for just over a year - no misfires - nor real fires as of yet (probably shouldn't say those things) - do have an xtra brake in the shop.
jerry

[Roger Feeley]

I am not trying to convert you sawstop guys to sliders, but, comments like this are so easily lost in the mass of sawstop rhetoric that ensues whenever the subject is breached that I hope their lack of defense is not taken for acquiescence by us slider folks. If any real information is desired on sliding saws, please don't glean it from page three of a sawstop thread.

One question, then I will go away and you all can talk about me. Ok, so you got a sawstop, and you will now not cut your fingers off with your tablesaw. What about your bandsaw, circular saw, jointer, chisels, or kitchen knives? I tend to get complacent when I know something is not dangerous, what happens if that complacency is carried over to those non sawstop tools? Does the sawstop then actually make it more likely that you will cut yourself badly because those other tools combined get used more than a tablesaw?

I wondered about that when I got my SS ICS but it really didn't change my perspective. I've been using a TS for 30 years and still have all my digits because of a healthy respect for the risks. My hope was that I could sort of forget about the SS safety system and just let it be a backup. But there are differences in how you use the SS and they are just enough to make you remember that it's there. I don't feel complacent about it at all. In fact, I think it makes me think a bit more about safety on my other tools because I spent so much to get extra safety on one.

[Mike Henderson]

One question, then I will go away and you all can talk about me. Ok, so you got a sawstop, and you will now not cut your fingers off with your tablesaw. What about your bandsaw, circular saw, jointer, chisels, or kitchen knives? I tend to get complacent when I know something is not dangerous, what happens if that complacency is carried over to those non sawstop tools? Does the sawstop then actually make it more likely that you will cut yourself badly because those other tools combined get used more than a tablesaw?

I certainly have not experienced any complacency regarding my other tools because I have a SawStop. I still treat them the same way as I've always done.

I won't call it complacency but I find I'm not as fearful of the table saw (with a SawStop) as I was with my old table saw. Knowing that the flesh sensing technology is backing me up gives me a peace of mind when using the saw. And, yes, I might do some things on the SawStop that I wouldn't have done on my old saw.

But when looking at other tools, I don't use a bandsaw very much. Probably my most used tool, maybe even more than the table saw, is my miter saw. I may be wrong, but I believe that tools where the material is held still and the blade moves are safer (you're less likely to cut yourself) than on tools where the material is moved into the tool. So I have a very healthy respect for my router table and I'm very careful to keep my hands away from the cutting blade. I've never had a close call with my miter saw or bandsaw.

Chisels and kitchen knives (and carving tools), I've cut myself with them many times but the severity of the injury is minor, especially compared to the damage that would be done by an equivalent contact with a table saw blade or router bit. I haven't noticed any difference in the way I handle and work with chisels, carving tools, or kitchen knives compared to prior to getting a SawStop.

Mike

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Mike and Roger, just so you know, I'm not anti Sawstop. I'm glad they exist, and I'm glad many people appreciate them.

I think I would get a little complacent, which is why I brought that up. My 14" bandsaw is the example I'm thinking of. I have a 36" Oliver brute of a bandsaw, and you cannot take it for granted. It is so blatantly powerful, it demands attention. I also have a little Delta 14" saw that I just use for odd jobs. Nice quiet little thing, heck you can't even feel the breeze from the wheels on it. I caught myself doing something stupid with it once though, because it was the "safe" saw. I was cutting a piece of pvc pipe, and of course it rolled and broke the blade. I know better then that, and I never would have done it with the Oliver, but I didn't even think about it twice with the Delta. Odd how my mind malfunctioned but I think about it every time I use a bandsaw now, so maybe lesson learned.

BTW, the drawer in my wife's kitchen that holds the knives cost me the very tip end of a finger. Its a heavy drawer, and a cheap slide broke. My finger was between the counter edge and the drawer face as it levered up. It's the dumb little things that get us I guess. Really glad it was me, not one of the girls.

[Denny Rice]

"...how many misfires people get with the brake device and what's the cost/downtime from that[?]"

I would bet that most people have a similar experience to mine: I had a firing relatively early on. My miter gauge contacted the blade, and the brake fired. I had to wait a week for a new brake and blade to arrive. If I had extras on hand, the downtime would have been 5 minutes or less.

Since then, I'm careful about 'dry running' my gauge through the cut beforehand.

I find that the LED indicators, this experience, and the knowledge that a misfire will mean $80 and wet pants has made me more aware when using the saw - which feels like a good thing.

I have also had a near-fire once when cutting a green piece of wood. The blade spun down, but the brake did not fire. The warning light went on.

The SawStop rep also told me if and when I purchase a new SawStop to buy an extra brake and keep it on hand. If the brake ever fires, they want the fired brake back, I guess the brake stores information that the people at SawStop can use. I was also told by the rep that once I buy one brake I will never have to buy another. He told me to mail them the old "fired" brake and they will ship me a new brake free for the life of the saw.

[Prashun Patel]

That's a good deal you have with them if you understood them correctly. I was under the impression that Sawstop only replaces brakes for free if it fires erroneously. If it fired because of user error, then I didn't think it's reimbursable.

[Matt Meiser]

I believe if you have a skin-triggered activation that's true. I don't think they'll send you a new one if you hit your miter gauge or cut wet wood.

http://www.sawstop.com/report-a-save/

You may be eligible for a free cartridge. If you send us your activated cartridge and we determine through our diagnostic processes that contact with skin triggered the activation, we’ll send you a new cartridge free of charge.

[Mike Heidrick]

I believe if you have a skin-triggered activation that's true. I don't think they'll send you a new one if you hit your miter gauge or cut wet wood.

http://www.sawstop.com/report-a-save/

I am not aware of any cartridge that was sent in that was not replaced for free by any reason. There are rumors of the skin activation rules but the practice has so far not been such.

As to becoming complacent because I own a sawstop - nonsense to me. I prob think about it more than when I owned my delta because there is a brake that can fire and cost me. As to my other tools I work to make them safer too. Examples are feeders on all shapers, I own a big slider shaper, RT (not mounted yet) and the MM20, Made a hold down table for the RAS, Have a nice ststaion for SCMS cuts with hold downs and stops, and a lot of cuts are now made on the CNC router - no need for human interaction after pressing start.

I am really convinced slider boys are not doing all the time consuming truck setups it would take to rip up a bunch of various wood on a slider truck. You can say only on 3" or less wood do I... Whatever. Not buying that they do not rip 99% of the time like the rest of us. I am sure I am wrong and its all in my head.

The slider is nice. No way is it making the the spinning saw blade less dangerous. What you do to make them less dangerous, all the toys and add ons you buy or get and methods you change is up to you. In the end, if you fault in any way with a human part hitting the blade, you are cut up. Period. Felder/MM/etc took no measure to help you there.

I can take steps to also make my cuts less dangerous on my SS. I have bolt ons and included parts as well. Maybe not as slick as a 10' slider immediately next to the blade or thousands of bolt on options. But I have enough options to cut the hardwood I use at a level I feel is safe. But when I fault with one of my human parts hitting the spinning blade, there is a high chance the brake will fire and I will maybe get a scratch. Thats the facts and we all choose our own solutions. You only have to make yourself happy in your own shop.

[Homer Faucett]

I am not aware of any cartridge that was sent in that was not replaced for free by any reason. There are rumors of the skin activation rules but the practice has so far not been such.

Maybe they have changed, but I bought a SS ICS in 2007 (it was the only SS available at the time). I had multiple cartridges that fired for no apparent reason. After some time with the SawStop CS (who was very helpful), we found out that the lead wire tot he arbor might have been overtightened at the factory, resulting in false fires. I sent in either four or five cartridges, and they sent back one less than what I sent in, stating that one of the cartridges was apparently triggered by wet wood, so they would not replace that cartridge. The wood I was cutting was air dried cherry, but the stack wasn't testing as being above 12% mc. Maybe I hit a wet spot. I don't know.

With that said, I haven't had a misfire since, although I am careful to override the brake if I think I might have something in the wood that would trigger it (I was told that some laminates might mistakenly fire the brake). All that is to say that there are times when SawStop will not send you a free brake. Additionally, I was never offered a free replacement blade, although I was able to salvage all but one blade from the brake firings. In the end, I've been very happy with my SawStop, and it's held up well in an unheated wood shop . . . much better than some might fear.

[Mike Heidrick]

Great to know Homer. Never heard of free blades either. My ICS saw is a 2006.

I do know that the brake port is different now on the newer ICS saws vs my 2006.

Also want to thank Joe for the info on sliders via PM. I have a slider shaper and his ideas will help me use it better for sure.