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Thread: Flattening Water Stones

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sandwich, MA
    Posts
    134

    Flattening Water Stones

    Hi,

    I'm new to Neanderthal land, making a slow creep from powerville.

    I've been reading the threads on sharpening stones, trying to figure out the best approach to take. I've used a water stone, oil stones and a diamond plate in the past, but my experience is limited. Aside from a semi-worn diamond plate, none of my other stones is large enough to use for sharpening plane blades. I'd like to choose one sharpening system and buy new stones for that system. I'm trying to figure out what system would suit me best. I expect to use the stones primarily for sharpening planes and chisels.

    In one previous thread a number of members stated that flattening coarse water stones with a diamond plate will "chew up" the diamond plate. I've used wet/dry sandpaper on glass with water to flatten an 800 grit waterstone and it worked fine, though it's a bit messy. Assuming a coarse waterstone only needs to be used infrequently for grinding, I don't see using wet/dry sandpaper as a problem for flattening that stone. But, it would be more convenient to use a diamond plate to flatten medium and fine grit water stones since they are used more frequently. I'd appreciate recommendations for the minimum grit size water stones that you would flatten with a diamond plate witihout fear of significantly shortening the lifetime of the diamond plate. For purposes of this question let's consider two diamond plates, the Atoma 400 and the DMT duosharp coarse (325 grit).

    Thanks.

    Bob

  2. #2
    I have always used a diamond plate to flatten all my waterstones from 800 to 8,000 grit - been doing it for a while - if it is chewing up my diamond plate I can't discern it

  3. #3
    400 atoma is nicer to use, but more expensive. It sticks to the stone less. It is also something to not use with an oilstone. The adhesive that holds the diamond strip to the milled plate may not tolerate solvents or oils. Actually, any diamond stone that goes on an oil hone can't be shared with a waterstone unless you remove the oil completely.

    DMT 325 duosharp also works fine. Google it before you buy it anywhere. It's flat. Doesn't work quite as nicely as the atoma (sticks more) but it should be something that can be had for $60 or so and you can waste the opposite side on routine tool sharpening if you get the 325/600 stone.

    I wouldn't go below a 700 grit waterstone with any of the above diamond plates, except the chosera maybe, which is in my mind not really a 400 grit stone, it behaves more like a 600/700 grit stone.

  4. #4
    As far as stones go, shapton pros (ebay, stu tierney, craftsmanstudio.com, ...whatever brings them in the cheapest) or the sigma power set that stu tierney has at toolsfromjapan.com. Unless you profess your undying love to plain carbon steel and nothing else, I think you'll find those a lot more productive than oilstones.

    If you're relatively new, and you can soak your stones, you'll like stu's better. If you can't soak your stones (cold shop, whatever) you'll get to like the shapton pros.

    The only other similarly good option is choseras and they cost a lot more and don't deliver performance in line with their cost when compared to the other two.

    If you need lower cost ideas, let us know. We've collectively pretty much tried them all.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    710
    I've used 220g and 320g sandpaper on melamine, mdf, and a granite slab on my Norton's. I got tired of buying sandpaper and lately have been using an extra, extra course DMT dia-sharp plate. I plan to use it on my Arkansas stones as needed, but haven't had to do it yet. Not sure about the wearing of the diamond plate but I never use much pressure on my diamond stones.

    Based on what I've read and know about the duosharps and atoma, I'd go with the atoma 400. In fact, if you'd like to consider an atoma 400 packaged with a set of Sigma Power ceramic stones, Schtoo, a member of SMC, has such an offering. I'd strongly consider this if I were in the sharpening stone market. I've never used them but I've real a lot of good comments about them.

    http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=1667

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,178
    Bob, the method I use, which I learned from some Japanese carpenters I worked with a long time ago, is to flatten the coarse-medium stones (call them the red stones) on the face of a cement block with some water and fine sand (like play sand). Then use the newly flattened and well-rinsed red stone to flatten the polishing stone, again with a bit of water but no sand. Fast, effective, INEXPENSIVE, and the stones come out very flat and even. No need, IMO, to get more involved than that.

    FWIW, Japanese carpenters are fiends about keeping their tools sharp and well-tuned.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    mid-coast Maine and deep space
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    Here is an earlier thread on the subject. Read Stu Tierney's reasons for not using sandpaper here: Thttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ght=atoma+1200
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  8. #8
    I have become a fan of the Norton flattening stones. I just bought a second one the other day. They do a good job of refreshing my stones (King 1000 & 4000, Norton 8000). I used to use sandpaper on a granite plate. I'm not a big fan of sandpaper, but it can get you by until you get a Norton or diamond stone to keep your stones flat.
    If it ain't broke, fix it til it is!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Murdoch View Post
    Here is an earlier thread on the subject. Read Stu Tierney's reasons for not using sandpaper here: Thttp://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ght=atoma+1200
    Sandpaper is fine on stones like kings and other soft stones. On the ceramic stones, it's can cause issues on the finer stones. Same with some of the cheaper diamond hones.

    The last stone doesn't need to be that flat, though, especially if you don't sharpen with a jig. The ones before it need to be flat. If you can't afford a diamond hone, you can just flatten the medium stone by any means necessary and then use it to keep the fine stone flat.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Drew View Post
    FWIW, Japanese carpenters are fiends about keeping their tools sharp and well-tuned.
    It's nice to see that at least they value the finished surface, instead of the hack and scratch your way to a dull surface that's advocated so much for western woodwork.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Sandwich, MA
    Posts
    134
    Thanks to all the responders, especially David for your detailed recommendations and Sam for the link to the earlier thread with Stu's comments.

    Looks like I'll be buying some good water stones and a 300-400 grit diamond plate. I'll use the diamond plate to flatten the 1000 and higher grit stones and abrasive grit (silicon carbide) on concrete or glass to flatten water stones below 1000 grit.

    Bob

  12. #12
    You might like the handout or even the video on the Lie Nielsen web site on sharpening using water stones. Never tried this before but the link may be http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=517

    If it doesn't work, on their home page in the left column under "Other Makers Tools" click "Sharpening."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    East Brunswick, NJ
    Posts
    1,475
    It's tough to beat Stu's deal on a set of waterstones and an Atoma diamond plate for flattening purposes.

    Flattening a waterstone is pretty straightforward, and takes little time at all. I made a short video on flattening a waterstone that might be useful.

    Also, as for why I like Atoma diamond plates than the DMT for this purpose, look here.

  14. #14
    I'm into results and good value. Diamond stones are expensive and poor value. A granite inspection surface and wet/dry paper is cheap, can be used for several tasks including flattening stones, works well and represents high value.

    I have used sandpaper and an inspection plate to flatten my water stones for 20 years. I have yet to ruin a stone doing this.

    Sellers of waterstones profit from the sales of $$$ diamond plates recommended to flatten said waterstones.

    Hey, don't flatten all your stones with the sandpaper if you don't want to, just your 800 grit. Then flatten your finer grit stones using the 800 grit. Rinse well and you're laughing.

    Honestly, woodworkers are so ready to shellout $$$ for the next greatest sharpening "whatever". Do some research on metal working sites and see how the metal guys sharpen their tools and you'll find their processes are time honoured and lacking in the jig/machine/process of the week.

    Knowledge is power because it will help you have truly sharp tools and a wallet full of money.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn, NYC
    Posts
    510
    There are a lot of ways to flatten stones. How do you suppose carpenters flattened their stones before diamond plates? Diamonds are fast and easy but not the only game in town. I am probably the last person on the earth to use the norton flattening stone. I have heard many people talk of throwing them away and and seen a video of C. Schwarz breaking one with a hammer but that makes about as much sense to me as breaking your water stones because they are no longer flat. I monitor it with a straight edge and when it needs it, I flatten it with paper on glass. It usually takes about a minute.

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