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Thread: Precision Tools in Woodworking

  1. #1
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    Precision Tools in Woodworking

    I have shared my opinions regarding the usefulness of precision tools for woodworking on a couple of posts. Some dismissed the usefulness of precision measuring tools without providing reasoned explanations. But I think others might benefit, so a few of my experiences and thoughts follow.

    I suggest that woodworkers that desire good results and value their time should own three tools: 1. A diemaker’s square; 2. A precision ground straightedge; 3. A precision micrometer (1” .0001”). I will explain why below, but first you need to understand what kind of tools these should be, since there is so much useless junk made in Taiwan, China and India, and even the US and Europe. The tools I am recommending are not sold at Home Depot, or even in the woodworking tool catalogues, but by retailers that specialize in supplying high quality machinist’s tools to professionals. These tools are expensive, and they come with real certificates of testing for accuracy, and a solid guarantee. Once you have your set of these tools, check out their equivalents made in China, Taiwan or India and you will immediately see what I mean about junk.

    Why a diemaker’s square? Most woodworkers have never seen one. While not especially useful for layout, they excel at checking the accuracy of tools and setting up equipment. Unlike the engineer’s square, which is typically a chunky stainless steel body pinned to a thinner tongue, the diemaker’s square is a solid piece of steel, so much more rigid. A quality diemaker’s square is hardened, precision ground and certified. Besides being very straight, very parallel and very square, it has bevels cut into the tongue’s four long edges, which are chemically blackened, creating a knife edge that makes it easy to quickly and unerringly see any gap between the tongue and the tool or equipment being checked. No single tool beats it for checking for square. This is a big deal if you care about 90º.

    These tools are not for layout or even for even daily use (although the diemaker’s square excels at setting up tablesaws, bandsaws, and jointer fences) but are used to check that your workaday tools remain accurate. They aren’t used that often and spend most of the time in their boxes.

    An example. Some years ago I ordered a Starrett combo square to replace my old worn-out one. When it arrived, I pulled out my diemaker’s square and feeler gauges and checked it. It turned out to be .012” out of square measured at the end of the blade. That’s a lot, IMO. I was shocked that Starrett would let something so shoddy leave the factory, but sh#t happens. I contacted the retailer, explained the problem, and he exchanged the tool for one with proper tolerances. But if I had blithely assumed the combo square was accurate simply because all my other Starrett tools were excellent, not only would my quality have dropped off considerably, I would have begun to question both my eyesight and sanity by the time I finished the chest of drawers I was working on.

    Another example. When Lie-Nielson first came out with their jointer plane, I bought one right away. One reason I was willing to pay the high price was because all the L-N tools I had purchased previously had been manufactured to very high tolerances. I sharpened the blade and tried a cut and was shocked to find that it would not plane a flat surface. My 24” precision straightedge showed that the 22” sole was both cupped and twisted. The problem was easily corrected using glass, W/D paper, lube and the same precision straightedge. Since I had checked my framing square and knew it to be quite accurate, I could have used it instead, but it would have slower, more difficult, and I would have less confidence in the flatness of the finished sole.

    I am not relating these stories to badmouth Starrett or Lie-Nielson, but rather to point out that everything in Murphy’s World has problems that must be dealt with, and that good tools can help discover and resolve those problems before they get too far out of control.

    When I was a civil engineering student, the professors teaching surveying told me that errors tend to cancel each other out. After graduation, Professor Murphy taught me the truth: errors always accumulate. Test this for yourself. Take a board at least 10 inches wide you believe has all six sides/edges square/parallel. Using a square and marking knife (a pencil/pen is too fat), spin a line around the six sides/edges. Begin each line where the previous line ended, and reference the square off a different surface when cutting each line. Does the last line meet the first line perfectly, or is there an offset? If there is an offset, the error may be the board. If so, ask yourself why the board is not square/parallel, and if that amount of unexplained error might tend to make a drawer flat or twisted. If on the other hand the error is in the square, how do you check to make sure the square is good or bad?

    Assuming you used the marking knife properly, is the line it cut absolutely straight? How can you tell?

    How do you make a board truly flat on all four sides with all sides truly at 90º without a square that has truly straight edges and that measures a precise 90º angle? You can’t. I don’t care if your square is steel or wood or aluminum or granite, if it is not true, all your woodworking will be guesswork. That’s not good enough for me.

    The oldest method for testing a square, one already pointed out by others, is to place the body of the square against some reliably straight reference surface, draw a line along the tongue, then reverse the square and draw another line closely adjacent to, or on top of, the first line. If the two lines are absolutely parallel, all is well, but if not, the max gap between the two lines indicates twice the deviation from 90º. But how do you know the reference surface you used is straight? You checked it with your straightedge? You mean that $12 aluminum or steel square made in China you bought from Sears? Or did you use a more accurate straightedge? You mean that “Made in India" POS you bought from Lee Valley? I have already shared my experiences regarding the accuracy of some combo squares. Some guys use the edge of their tablesaw or bandsaw ASSUMING the surface is straight. Fat chance. Some guys swear by using the edge of a piece of paper. That is delusional. My in-laws have four monstrous German-made CNC paper shears in their factory in Sendai, and I have checked those long blades and know they are not perfectly straight. They don’t need to be since paper is not intended to be a precision tool.

    I use my dial calipers regularly, mostly for measuring the thickness of boards, and comparing edge thickness of boards I am planing. When hand planing especially, dial calipers give quick, reliable results. But dial calipers are a rack and pinion tool, and racks and pinions wear out or get dinged or clogged. When this happens, and it always does, accuracy suffers and errors begin to accumulate. How do you check the accuracy? Feeler gauges are good, but a 1” micrometer lets you quickly and reliably check up to 1” thick.

    Ideally, you would check the precision of your tools before you use them the first time (or better yet, before you even buy them), and then check them occasionally to confirm they are straight/square/within tolerance. Recognize that squares and straightedges wear out or become damaged in daily use. But how is a fellow to check the tolerances of his tools accurately using tools that are themselves goofy?

    Besides my layout square, and framing square, I periodically check my planes (both wood and metal body) for flat/square. Yes, they do wear and move. I also check my shooting boards and cutting jigs frequently.

    I think most people use their layout and measuring tools and jigs until they become either too damaged to use, or until the precision degrades to the point their inadequacy becomes too gross to ignore, usually after repeated mistakes make them question their eyesight.

    I puzzled over this problem for a long time until I met a retired machinist who educated me. Manufacturers that have customers that rely on the accuracy of the products they make have Standard tools intended only for testing/calibrating the tools used on the factory/shop floor. They hire technicians or companies to periodically certify that these tools are still within tolerance and calibrated properly. These are expensive and massive granite and steel things. Since I don’t have access to such “Standards,” my retired machinist friend recommended I follow his example and keep a small set of high-quality, certified, precision tools in my shop, including a diemaker’s square, a 24” precision ground straightedge, and a 1” .0001” micrometer. I followed his advice, and since then, I have never had to wonder if any of my layout or measuring tools is straight, or square, or properly calibrated, or measuring properly because I have my own reliable Standards at hand. I also use them to check the accuracy of the tools belonging to the guys that work for me.

    Long-term, I believe this has made my work much more accurate and efficient. Without doubt, it has caused me to replace tools that were out of tolerance despite appearing hunky dory, tools that I would have otherwise continued to use ignorant of their failings. It has also caused me to reject a lot of bad tools I would have later regretted buying due to unacceptable tolerances. I am certain it has saved me a lot of time and embarrassment over the years.

    If you have been working with tools for a long time and think this is all nonsense, then I wish you well. But there may be guys without your skills that might find these ideas useful so retain your flames. I am not saying this is the only way to get the job done. After all, folks were making excellent furniture millennia before mankind could even hope to measure a thousandth of an inch. And there are lots of tricks for magnifying errors in woodworking to make them obvious. What I am saying is that, long-term, three precision tools can make the job easier and more efficient and give you greater confidence in your other tools.

    Those of you that scoff at me for these suggestions should check your own tools for accuracy before long. You may be shocked.
    Last edited by Keith Outten; 02-12-2013 at 7:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    This is a very interesting and informative thread Stanley. Thanks for posting it. While many probably will not agree with all your assertions (in terms of necessity) your points are all very well stated and reasoning explained well. Its given me some good food for thought. Will I run out and buy all this stuff immediately? Nah, that's not where I can and want to apply my funds at the moment, and at the moment I'm okay with my less then perfect tools....in all honesty there's a good chance I'll never pursue this. That said I can definitely see how REALLY knowing the tolerances or your tools would be helpful and could potentially make things more efficient.

    Thanks for posting this. Well written, informative, and some really good food for thought.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 02-11-2013 at 8:28 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  3. #3
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    Also it would be helpful if you could post brand names or links to the tools you consider high quality machinist tools.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #4
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    With what do you check the accuracy of your accuracy checking tools?

  5. #5
    I couldn't do the work I do (not the way I do it, at any rate) without real straight edges, engineering squares and calipers. One thing I will disagree with is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with Indian straight edges and squares as long as they are made properly, and many that I've seen are fine including the Veritas ones you're mentioning.

    Sometimes it's good enough to mark things off of each other and just make them fit, but if you're doing something that needs to fit AND be dimensionally accurate, eyeballing it is just not good enough. When I'm making an instrument, a nice fit just simply isn't good enough. It needs to fit well AND it needs to be accurate. I think sometimes some people here forget not everyone is making dressers and entertainment centers.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 02-11-2013 at 7:28 AM.

  6. #6
    Hmmm, it depends on what you make, I suppose. In woodworking, especially handtool woodworking (the subject of this forum), you just don't need machine room accuracy. Checking your square on the edge of the workbench, works allright. Is it very accurate? Probably not. Is it good enough to layout a tenon shoulder? Absolutely! It doesn't really matter when your carcasses or doors or drawers don't end up at a true 90 degrees. A few swipes with a plane and all non squareness is quickly adjusted and parts are fitted together. And if things are not totally straight, who cares, if it looks straightish and the cubboard or table stands with all its legs on the ground? The strenght of handtool woodworking is the possibility to work with parts that are not 100% correct, because you fit all parts to each other. Taking meassurements from the adjoining part, instead of a ruler.

    I do have a micrometer, leftover from my motorcycle hobby, but never use it in woodworking. I do have a (Indian or Chinese) straightedge, which is nice to chack plane soles. Further, I couldn't care less about precision.

  7. #7
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    I get my boards S6S with a 4" square, marking gauge, knife and straightedge.

    I make each piece to fit the next, so having the sort of precision you describe doesn't help me much.
    I doubt anything I make is perfectly flat, level or plumb. I do actually finish projects, this way.

    Perfection is the mortal enemy of good enough.

  8. #8
    While I respect anyone's methods of work so long as they generate a finished product to the satisfaction of the that person, I'm pretty fimly in the 'nonsense' camp. Tools designed from steel for use on steel implicitly assume a Young's modulus of the measured material of 29,000 ksi. Wood is significantly softer. Pine is about 20x softer. That means that when you measure the thickness of the workpiece with the .0001 accuracy tool, you actually change the the thickness of the wood within the limits of accuracy of the tool. It's like trying to measure the thickness of a sponge; you change the conditions by examining them. You killed Schrodinger's cat!!

    Like you said, I'm sure those tools are useful for tool set-up, but as long as subect media is wood, it's still a tough sell.

  9. #9
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    I suppose that your tools, since steel, could use the precision.

    However, people have been working wood and making excellent furniture/items for centuries without said precision tools.
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

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  10. Quote Originally Posted by Richard Shaefer View Post
    While I respect anyone's methods of work so long as they generate a finished product to the satisfaction of the that person, I'm pretty fimly in the 'nonsense' camp. Tools designed from steel for use on steel implicitly assume a Young's modulus of the measured material of 29,000 ksi. Wood is significantly softer. Pine is about 20x softer. That means that when you measure the thickness of the workpiece with the .0001 accuracy tool, you actually change the the thickness of the wood within the limits of accuracy of the tool. It's like trying to measure the thickness of a sponge; you change the conditions by examining them. You killed Schrodinger's cat!!

    Like you said, I'm sure those tools are useful for tool set-up, but as long as subect media is wood, it's still a tough sell.
    Good stuff.

    And one can certainly spot check a woodworking machine tool with these highly sensitive devices but surely just a few inches away from point of measurement the cast iron will not have been machined to the level of accuracy the tool is reading to in the first spot. The anal retentive individual likely will find this hard to deal with. The wood won't give a damn, of this I'm sure. Once one starts to talk about this level of accuracy then the force applied to move the wood, a compressible material, over or through the machine comes into play. The exercise becomes absurd and one bogs down in a bit of tail-chasing ultimately going nowhere or one deludes themselves into believing they are actually and in real time working wood to these incredibly precise nominal measurements provided by their arsenal of instrumentation. It's hard to imagine that somebody gets through an engineering much less a full degree and doesn't gain an understanding of these basic truths.
    Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 02-11-2013 at 9:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    Hmmm, it depends on what you make, I suppose. In woodworking, especially handtool woodworking (the subject of this forum), you just don't need machine room accuracy. Checking your square on the edge of the workbench, works allright. Is it very accurate? Probably not. Is it good enough to layout a tenon shoulder? Absolutely! It doesn't really matter when your carcasses or doors or drawers don't end up at a true 90 degrees. A few swipes with a plane and all non squareness is quickly adjusted and parts are fitted together. And if things are not totally straight, who cares, if it looks straightish and the cubboard or table stands with all its legs on the ground? The strenght of handtool woodworking is the possibility to work with parts that are not 100% correct, because you fit all parts to each other. Taking meassurements from the adjoining part, instead of a ruler.

    I do have a micrometer, leftover from my motorcycle hobby, but never use it in woodworking. I do have a (Indian or Chinese) straightedge, which is nice to chack plane soles. Further, I couldn't care less about precision.
    +1. If you like using precision tools, more power to you. I'd rather spend the money on wood. My wooden squares and wooden straightedge are just fine. I do have a nice Starrett combination square that I bought at an antique store, but I really only use it when my wooden squares aren't handy. They live in my tool box for protection; the Starrett lives in a rack mounted over my main bench.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  12. #12
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    I really like Stanley's post. I learn the most from people near the extremes, but I usually dial it back a little in my own practice.

    There is a lot of truth to "errors accumulate" and "check what you expect". I think what your describing is probably a once or twice a year check, unless a tool is dropped. It makes a lot of sense to me.
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  13. #13
    Being an engineer myself by training I appreciate Stanley's post. Certainly it is not for everyone, but I think the critics misunderstand his intent. The American quality guru Edward Deming postulated that," You don't know what you don't know." Too many new hand tool users have never checked the accuracy of the tools they use for marking and measuring. Personally I like story sticks, cutting things like aprons in pairs, and other techniques to avoid measuring whenever possible. That said, some things like marking tenon shoulders are a lot faster and more accurate if the square being used is accurate. I know you can adjust by paring or using a shoulder plane, but equally (and more efficiently) you can avoid this if the square is actually square. I keep a precision 24" straightedge myself along with dial indicators, test indicators, and an engineers square. All of these tools I verified for accuracy by taking them to work and putting them on a coordinate measuring machine which is calibrated annually by an outside service to standards traceable to NIST (National Institue of Standards and Technology). These tools like Stanley said, are reference tools only and sit in a drawer in my mechanics/machinists tool chest except for when I need to check other tools for accuracy.

    If nothing else, think of Stanley's treatise as a wakeup call to check the accuracy of your marking and measuring tools. No matter how you work or what tools you use, good results are easier to obtain if you tools are accurate.
    Dave Anderson

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  14. #14
    I would agree that precision measuring tools have a place in woodworking, they certainly do in my shop. Primarily these tools get used to ensure that my equipment and tools are well set up. So many of the disappointing project outcomes stem from poorly set up tools and equipment. I consider what Stanley is talking about as the first step in any woodworking project. It was not the first step that I took I should add. As I developed proficiency and began to demand better results I was forced to take this path.

    As for squishing wood with measuring tools, I agree that you certainly can if you are not being careful. If however you are careful and have the same touch on the measuring tool through out the project, the information that you are gathering by the thousandths is still good, useful and relevant.

    I am now doing a model project in my shop and I have to use dial calipers to make sure that I am holding specified tolerances that the client insists on. The objects that I am making will be wrapped in graphics and they need to be size on, not woodworking close.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Chris Fournier View Post
    I would agree that precision measuring tools have a place in woodworking, they certainly do in my shop. Primarily these tools get used to ensure that my equipment and tools are well set up. So many of the disappointing project outcomes stem from poorly set up tools and equipment. I consider what Stanley is talking about as the first step in any woodworking project. It was not the first step that I took I should add. As I developed proficiency and began to demand better results I was forced to take this path.

    As for squishing wood with measuring tools, I agree that you certainly can if you are not being careful. If however you are careful and have the same touch on the measuring tool through out the project, the information that you are gathering by the thousandths is still good, useful and relevant.

    I am now doing a model project in my shop and I have to use dial calipers to make sure that I am holding specified tolerances that the client insists on. The objects that I am making will be wrapped in graphics and they need to be size on, not woodworking close.
    Squishing tools with a measuring tool is an issue but not nearly as big an issue as squishing them when running them over or through a machine which, itself, is manufactured to far less tolerance than machinist's tools are capable of measuring. Even if cast iron tables and fences were perfect, a pipe dream, then arbor runout (not to mention the imperfection in blades and cutters themselves) would mess up the whole thing at least in terms of the tolerances being thrown about in this thread.
    Last edited by Charlie Stanford; 02-11-2013 at 11:10 AM.

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