Diamond Paste

[Kees Heiden]

If it is chasing more than wear, though, it can get out of control.

Yes, that was what I feared. Probably, I didn't really have a filosophy, just a gutfeeling it can't be good.

Anyway, I'm, looking for a Kanaban. I will have a look around overhere. Do you know a reliable brand? Loose diamonds are easilly available.

I do allready use an iron holder on the Sigma 120, you really need to put your weight on the iron to get it to cut over a large surface.

[David Weaver]

Tsunesaburo has some that are actually flat. They are more coin than the ones that aren't as flat (I don't know what brand those cheap ones are, they're about $20).

If you have anything mild steel around you anywhere (in the 3/8th thick range), you can drill and countersink some holes in it and attach it to a block of wood and be off to the races.

I use this one: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/s...Plate_(Kanaban)

Mine started out a little crowned. I refurbished a rash of tools a few years ago and it eventually ended up hollow, anyway. I reflattened it on coarse sandpaper, and am more careful about using the whole surface now.

Loose diamonds without paste is a far better buy for this kind of work, I'm sure you're already aware. I think my figure above of $1 per carat is what it was when I bought mine. It might be more like a $0.25 per carat now. I didn't use 20 carats in the time I've refurbished a whole pile of tools that I had set aside when I only had stones.

[Kees Heiden]

Good, I'll look around for some mild steel. Real kanabans didn't seem to make it across the ocean, I can't find them at the usual shops.

[Jack Curtis]

...When I was learning to drive, they didn't keep putting behind the wheel of a totally different vehicle every time before I even learned the basics. ...

Heh, heh. My father was a car dealer (Lincoln/Mercury), and we didn't own a car when I learned to drive; so I dealt with the changing vehicles by learning to drive most anything except huge trucks, stick and auto, etc. So there are some advantages to the alternate method, cause now I can step into most any vehicle and drive safely.

[Jack Curtis]

...
Anyway, I'm, looking for a Kanaban. I will have a look around over here. Do you know a reliable brand? Loose diamonds are easilly available....

Dieter carries a Veritas steel honing plate as well as lots of Japanese tools. He may have some kanaban, too.

[Steve Friedman]

David,

I have used diamond paste, but never loose diamonds. Do you have a recommendation for a source for the loose diamonds? Also, what's your favorite lubricant to use with them?

Thanks,

Steve

[Kees Heiden]

Yes, the LV plate looks like a good candidate! Not very cheap, but it is FLAT. And it is easilly available, which is nice too. I couldn't find it yesterday, because i was looking for Kanabans.

Now I must look around for the diamond paste. Weird, Dieter sells the plate but not the diamonds...

BTW, Lee Valley claims the plate will never go out of flat. Probably because the grit will embed in the plate. How serious should one take such a claim?

[David Weaver]

Yes, the LV plate looks like a good candidate! Not very cheap, but it is FLAT. And it is easilly available, which is nice too. I couldn't find it yesterday, because i was looking for Kanabans.

Now I must look around for the diamond paste. Weird, Dieter sells the plate but not the diamonds...

BTW, Lee Valley claims the plate will never go out of flat. Probably because the grit will embed in the plate. How serious should one take such a claim?

Every plate will go out of flat, but one used with very fine diamonds will do it very slowly. With coarser diaminds, it will happen fairly quickly.

When you're using a plate, the urge to recharge it before it stops cutting will be there. Once the diamonds embed, you don't have the "crunch" that you feel when you have a few loose ones rolling around. IT just feels instead like you've got metal on metal, so you have to check the edge you're honing to see if progress is being made to determine whether or not you need to recharge. To reverse something that Bill Clinton said, you want to use less rather than more and later rather than sooner.

I don't use fine diamonds too much, though. I tinkered with them like others, but a good stone is so much nicer to use.

[David Weaver]

David,

I have used diamond paste, but never loose diamonds. Do you have a recommendation for a source for the loose diamonds? Also, what's your favorite lubricant to use with them?

Thanks,

Steve

I have bought all of mine on ebay from someone who use the name "yuri" in their handle. Not intentionally, he's just been the cheapest. I usually just go out there and search "loose diamond grit" or "diamond lapidary grit" and type in a number like 80 or 120 depending on what I'm looking for. Whatever comes up cheapest but is graded to the size I want, that's what I get.

I just did a search of the same thing (without a number constraint) and came up with the same guy at this auction #:

321008138730

I'm sure he has coarser grits, too. No affiliation, of course.

The only reason I go for loose diamonds vs. pastes is that you get so much more diamond in loose diamonds for the same money. I universally use(d) Wd40 from a gallon dispensed from a reusable bottle (if you use an aerosol can, it just goes everywhere - not a big fan of that). Now that I don't have much more to acquire in tools, I don't use the stuff much, but it's handy when you need it.

[Metod Alif]

Hi Derek,
Thanks for your "Too much work to flatten the cast iron plates you have."- non-encouragement. I will not toss the plates away yet. I am supposed to meet with a friend's acquaintance in (hopefully) a few days. He used to work as a machinist - I am guessing that he might be retired now. I am curious what can I learn.
You have experience with a variety of media. How do your diamond charged plane soles compare with the rest? Mentioning of kanaban - well the pieces I have are suitably large.
Best wishes,
Metod

[Metod Alif]

Hi Jim,
My water stones are over 20 years old, and I still use and like them. They are good enough for me to have them kept that long. I do like to find out what else works - if it costs not much (be it in terms of cash or time/effort). I did start using oil with water stones, for example. They produce the same sharpness - but the convenience of having them nearby and 'dry' is worth the price of oil.
Best wishes,
Metod

[Metod Alif]

Hi David,
I did use an old and not so fresh file to smooth the edges after the hacksaw cuts. It was not so bad - a fresh file would work better. That's when I began speculating about a new and larger file. Of course, the contact area with the edges is much smaller so it is easier to produce greater pressure.
Best wishes,
Metod

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Derek,
Thanks for your "Too much work to flatten the cast iron plates you have."- non-encouragement. I will not toss the plates away yet. I am supposed to meet with a friend's acquaintance in (hopefully) a few days. He used to work as a machinist - I am guessing that he might be retired now. I am curious what can I learn.
You have experience with a variety of media. How do your diamond charged plane soles compare with the rest? Mentioning of kanaban - well the pieces I have are suitably large.
Best wishes,
Metod

Hi Metod

Your machinist friend may be the only one with a solution (other than to toss the plates in the corner) - he may be able to surface grind then for you.

The LV mild steel plates are excellent. I have one from pre-production testing. I thought was a suitable substitute for my iron plane plates.

How does diamond compare to other mediums? There is cheap diamond paste on eBay and there is more expensive diamond paste from suppliers to jewellers. The difference lies in the concentration of diamond. You pay for what you get.

I am curious how others charge their plates with diamond paste? I smear on a little (large pea), and then use the back of a chisel blade to force the diamond into the iron surface. Once done, I wipe the plate clean. It is the diamond that is embedded that is going to do the work, not the paste on the surface. The paste is the carrier for the diamond grit. Yes/no?

Treated this way the plates are quite clean to work with.

I tend to use the plates for flattening and polishing the backs of blades that have been restored or prepared for the first time. There is greater security in the flatness of an iron plate than the wear of a Japanese waterstone - especially at the coarse end of the range of grits.

As good as diamonds can be, I prefer waterstones for sharpening - this is a feedback thing.

One alternative is the diamond mesh papers that LV sell. Attach them to glass and you have a superb medium for touching up dulling edges. Fast, and with a smoothness down to 0.1 micron. http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...amondFilm.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Charlie Stanford]

I had a junked piece of cast iron for some 20 years. It looked similar to the extension wings on my table saw but smaller, about 18"x10". Few days ago I cut it up with a hacksaw into 5 pieces, about 3"x10" each. There is some rust and visible dishing, almost 1/16" at the middle. I did not check for the flatness before cutting but suspect that some tension was released because of cutting through the ribs.
Now I have two questions, the first is how to flatten the surfaces (not looking around for a machine shop yet). I would be willing to get a 16" bastard cut file, and plane the surfaces flat. Of course, this is just an idea on the paper. Should I have any hope to succeed?
The second question is, how to best use the plates - what grit(s) diamond paste would be most appropriate. I looked at Derek Cohen's site (Derek, I hope you chime in), which got me to cut the piece instead of tossing it away. Derek has (at the latest count) three plates from old planes with .5, 10 and 40 microns paste, but little about their actual use.
I would be thankful for any suggestions. I am not overly enthusiastic with the flattening issue - but if the payoff is worthy, I would pursue it, even possibly through a machine shop.

Metod

Reads like the woodworking equivalent of wearing a hair shirt. One can't help but wonder why you're putting yourself through this. We all seem so determined in our refusal to believe how few tools and how simple our shops need to be in order to do a bit of decent woodworking.

All of this sturm and drang, hack sawing, and soon to be Blanchard grinding is all so you can use diamond pastes? If I lived close to you I would stage an intervention.

[Kees Heiden]

It looks like the beauty of diamonds hasn't quite reached the Dutch shores yet. I can't find anyone supplying these.

How about silicum carbide? That stuff is cheap and very easy to get.

I did find a mild steel plate in the shop, but am afraid it is far from flat. So just to be sure I'll order the Veritas one.