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Thread: Table Saw use with Generator - Issues

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  1. #1
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    Table Saw use with Generator - Issues

    Hey all,

    I've been using my Grizzly G0691 table saw with a Honda 240 volt generator for a couple of days. After converting one of my extension cords to plug into the generator (6-20P to L14-30P). The first day that I used it I noticed that I would have to hold the switch in for an extra second or two to let the mag switch engage and keep the saw running. I'm not sure if the had an effect, but let it also be noted that this was being done in an unheated shop in Minnesota where it was probably 10-20 degrees at the time (heat has since been added).

    The second day that I tried to use the saw, it would not turn on at all. So, I took the switch cover off to see if I could see anything obvious. I noticed on the switch that there was a blue bar accross one portion of the switch mechanism. So, I plugged it in and pushed the button. The saw turned on, but that switch has to be held in for the saw to keep running. So, I continued and am still using it in that manner (clamping that portion of the switch to keep the saw running).

    The next day I called Grizzly to see what the problem was and what I would need to do to get my saw operating properly again. The saw is about 2 years old, so past the warranty period, so I gave it to them straight and let them know I was using a generator to power the saw. The Customer Service Rep's response was "the saw is not designed to be powered by a generator." So, he proceeded to tell me that I needed to replace the entire magnetic switch (everything under the cover). I asked if I could just get the on/off switch (portion directly behind the green ON button), but he said that I needed the entire thing and they don't even carry just the on/off switch. The entire switch is $155 plus tax and shipping so probably at least $170 by the time it gets to my door.

    Knowing that I would continue to have to run the saw off the generator for the near future, I said thanks, but I'll pass on the part for now and keep running it as is (also hoping that I can maybe get just the on/off switch if that is indeed the problem or trouble shoot it more). The CSR also said that I could potentially damage the motor if I continue to run it off the generator. So, I asked how much a new motor would cost. $300. So, I'm already down the $170, and potentially $300 if my motor doesn't hold up. I don't really have a choice right now but to run it this way as I have a bathroom vanity and entire set of kitchen cabinets to build for my recently purchased house.

    Anyways, after that long explanation, has anyone else had similar experiences or have any thoughts on this?

    Thanks for any help or advice,
    Kyle

  2. #2
    Yikes! im not sure i would have tried that. One problem might be the cord you rigged. It might not be carrying enough juice to hold the switch. Another possibility is the generator isn't generating the proper amperage for the saw. Either way you are putting the motor at risk.

    How much would it cost to have an electrician wire up a 220? I bet less than $470. You could also get a basic 120v contractor table saw for less than that. They are designed to be used with generators.

    Hope you get it worked out, but I think I would look for alternatives.

  3. #3
    What model Honda generator - inverter type or no? There's a difference in how "clean" the power waveform is between the two; the Honda i series can run electronics.

  4. #4
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    Are you sure you wired that 14-30P correctly? It sounds like you may be getting only 125V to the saw.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    Are you sure you wired that 14-30P correctly? It sounds like you may be getting only 125V to the saw.
    David, how are you making that conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested in why you think that?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Kaldor View Post
    David, how are you making that conclusion? I'm not saying you're wrong, just interested in why you think that?
    1) You put a 30A plug on your cable so I assume that the generator has a 30A receptacle. This implies that the generator is capable of at least 20A otherwise it would have the cheaper 20A connector. 20A should be capable of running your saw.

    2) The type 14 connector has four pins: L1, L2, Neutral and ground. Your saw requires only three pins: L1, L2 and ground. 3 conductor S type cable is normally color coded Black, White and Green (in the US). For 125V applications Black is line, White is neutral and Green is ground. The plug or receptacle is a type 5 and is coded with Gold for line, Silver for neutral and Green for ground. For 240V Black and White in the cable are used for L1 and L2 with Green being ground. The type 6 device used here has Gold for L1 and L2 and Green for ground. The type 14 device adds a neutral pin that is coded with Silver. Since we are all used to connecting White to Silver in 125V situations it's very easy to make that mistake here. You should have Black and White connected to L1 and L2 (doesn't matter which) and no connection to the neutral (Silver) pin.

    3) When troubleshooting eliminate the simplest hypotheses first, in this case the miswiring of a connector, not the coincidental failure of a mag switch with it's connection to a generator.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    1) You put a 30A plug on your cable so I assume that the generator has a 30A receptacle. This implies that the generator is capable of at least 20A otherwise it would have the cheaper 20A connector. 20A should be capable of running your saw.

    2) The type 14 connector has four pins: L1, L2, Neutral and ground. Your saw requires only three pins: L1, L2 and ground. 3 conductor S type cable is normally color coded Black, White and Green (in the US). For 125V applications Black is line, White is neutral and Green is ground. The plug or receptacle is a type 5 and is coded with Gold for line, Silver for neutral and Green for ground. For 240V Black and White in the cable are used for L1 and L2 with Green being ground. The type 6 device used here has Gold for L1 and L2 and Green for ground. The type 14 device adds a neutral pin that is coded with Silver. Since we are all used to connecting White to Silver in 125V situations it's very easy to make that mistake here. You should have Black and White connected to L1 and L2 (doesn't matter which) and no connection to the neutral (Silver) pin.

    3) When troubleshooting eliminate the simplest hypotheses first, in this case the miswiring of a connector, not the coincidental failure of a mag switch with it's connection to a generator.
    David, that all makes sense. I agree that with the 30A plug, I would think the generator should be capable of producing at least the 20A that I need for the saw.

    When wiring the plug, I put the black to the X pin, the white to the Y pin and the green to the ground pin (they were all labeled on the plug).

    I will double check my wiring to the plug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott T Smith View Post
    +1. What size generator (kilowatts), and what size tablesaw (motor HP)? Also, what guage wire in your extension cord, and how long is the extension cord?
    I'm not exactly sure of the generator size, but like I mentioned above, why would it have a 30A plug and not be able to produce 20A/240V? I am using quite a bit of extension cord. One 25 ft 10 gauge cord, one 15 ft 10 gauge cord, connected to the 14 gauge saw cord. I think this should be adequate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myk Rian View Post
    Kyle;
    Don't run the saw on a generator. Find something else to burn up.
    Like I said, I don't have a choice, I've got a wife to keep happy and cabinets to build.

    Can anyone make sense of why this was working for a day and now all of a sudden does not work? What on the mag switch would/could have went bad. I don't really understand how they work.

  8. #8
    You've got a simple magnetic switch in that saw. If it comes on when you hit the button, it should stay on. It bothers me greatly that holding the switch allows you to run it. I wonder if the overload trips if you can still hit the On switch and have it come on? Very strange. Maybe you can find a friend that knows what he's doing and can come by and help you out so you don't keep blowing up the table saw.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coloccia View Post
    You've got a simple magnetic switch in that saw. If it comes on when you hit the button, it should stay on. It bothers me greatly that holding the switch allows you to run it. I wonder if the overload trips if you can still hit the On switch and have it come on? Very strange. Maybe you can find a friend that knows what he's doing and can come by and help you out so you don't keep blowing up the table saw.
    Just to clarify my operating procedure. If, when the cover is removed, I press the small green on/off switch, nothing happens. If I press the blue longer bar, the saw starts up, but I have to keep that depressed in order to keep the saw running. That leads me to believe that only the On/Off switch is bad, but Grizzly claims that I have to replace the entire thing.

    g0691_m.jpg

  10. #10
    Ah, that makes sense. I misunderstood the symptoms. If you really wanted to you can hook up an appropriate momentary switch that bypasses the green on/off. It has to go between 14 and 13 on that relay. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING in that box is AC from your generator that can kill you, including the switch we're talking about...no wishy washy 12V DC in there.

    Clamping the relay closed is a really poor solution. It looks like that will defeat the overload protection. It really would be very helpful if you had a buddy that knew a bit about this that could figure out where to get an appropriate switch locally and get it hooked up safely for you if you're not comfortable doing it yourself.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 02-22-2013 at 10:56 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coloccia View Post
    Ah, that makes sense. I misunderstood the symptoms. If you really wanted to you can hook up an appropriate momentary switch that bypasses the green on/off. It has to go between 14 and 13 on that relay. Keep in mind that EVERYTHING in that box is AC from your generator that can kill you, including the switch we're talking about...no wishy washy 12V DC in there.

    Clamping the relay closed is a really poor solution. It looks like that will defeat the overload protection. It really would be very helpful if you had a buddy that knew a bit about this that could figure out where to get an appropriate switch locally and get it hooked up safely for you if you're not comfortable doing it yourself.
    John, do you agree that it is only the on/off switch that is bad? I just can't imagine that the entire mag switch is faulty if it works by pushing the blue bar.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Kaldor View Post
    John, do you agree that it is only the on/off switch that is bad? I just can't imagine that the entire mag switch is faulty if it works by pushing the blue bar.
    I don't know what's bad. My guess is that the on switch is bad. That said, Grizzly is not a on switch supplier...the switch is part of the magnetic switch. It would be like trying to buy a knob for a radio from Best Buy....they don't sell knobs....they sell radios.

  13. #13
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    Like I said, I don't have a choice, I've got a wife to keep happy and cabinets to build.
    Surely she'll understand the situation.
    Is it worth burning up the generator, saw, or both?
    Never, under any circumstances, consume a laxative and sleeping pill, on the same night

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myk Rian View Post
    Surely she'll understand the situation.
    Is it worth burning up the generator, saw, or both?
    I'm not convinced that I'll burn up anything.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Kaldor View Post
    I'm not convinced that I'll burn up anything.
    Your saw, your risk, your money. Hope it works out for the best. Post some pics of the cabinets when you get them done.

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