building a bed - number of bed bolts

[John Piwaron]

I'm looking at the Greene and Greene bed that was the cover picture of FWW magazine recently. Given that only 1/4" of tenon enters the foot and headboards, I'm wondering if I should use 2 bed bolts at each joint instead of only one. What do you think?

[Dave Richards]

The tenons on the side rails should be plenty long. A single bed bolt is common on bed frames. If you add another bolt, it'll conflict with the tenons on the bottom rail.

[John Piwaron]

I know it's common, I've built beds before. But never with such a short tenon. As to interfering with the tenon on the other part, I'd just reshape it to allow for a 2nd bolt.

Of course I could also add 1/4" of thickness to everything and make the tenons 1/2" long. I've done those plenty of times.

[Dave Richards]

I guess it's your bed. You can build it as you wish. I don't think it is necessary, though.

[John Piwaron]

I'll make a test joint to try it out.

Just soliciting opinions.

[Jerry Miner]

What would the second bolt do? As I see it, the bolt draws the pieces together and holds the tenon shoulders tight to the leg, the tenon (stub-tenon) keeps everything in position and provides shear strength. A single bolt puts plenty of tension on the joint. A second would be superfluous, IMHO.

[John Piwaron]

The reason is racking.

[Dave Richards]

As I wrote before, it's your bed. You can do as you wish. How many beds do you suppose there are that have been built over the last several hundred years with just one bolt? It seems to me that if there were problems with the joint design it would have drifted out of use instead of continuing to be a common method of joining side rails to bed posts.

[John Piwaron]

I know. I understand. This isn't the first time I've built a bed using bed bolts. And one of them (mine) has a slight racking problem. with a tenon longer than 1/4" It didn't start that way, it took years. Therefore, I'm concerned. So I'm just considering my options.

And there are other choices too - metal fasteners - those bed bracket things. Or just glue the whole thing together in the room it'll be. It's not likely that I'll ever have to worry about taking it out.

The bottom line - I know about 1 bolt. I've never ever seen it done any other way. There's 99.9% certainty that there's no need to do it any other way. But here's the thing - I don't want *any* chance it's going to squeek during. . . . . . . . .

[Ted Calver]

John,
I am in the middle of a bed design and gave some thought to using two bolts also. I tend to over build (and over think) and like you, didn't want any chance of racking or squeaking. Then I started thinking about wood movement and wondered if using two bolts would inhibit movement in the rail...these are 11.5" X 1.25"...and maybe split the rail? That, and the cosmetics of having to cover two holes instead of one is the only reason I can think of not to do two if it makes you more comfortable.

[Jerry Miner]

The reason is racking.

Ok, how does the extra bolt increase the resistance to racking?

The tenon shoulders being drawn tight to the leg are what give you this resistance. Are you thinking a second bolt will draw the tenon shoulders up tighter? Do you want the connection drawn tight enough to crush the wood fibers, or what?

I don't want *any* chance it's going to squeek during. . . . . . . . .

Maybe you want welded steel

[John Piwaron]

I'm looking at the single bolt as being like the centerpoint of a fulcrum. In the Greene and Greene style, covering two bolt heads wouldn't be a problem. The idea is one towards the top, one towards the bottom of the tenon.

I'm not interesting crushing the wood. No one needs more than one to do that.

I'll consider more options to any potential racking.

[Ted Calver]

Here's a double shown on a bench I cobbled together from the remains of a fencing project fifteen years ago. PT 6" x 6" legs canted inward at the top and 2" x 6" stretchers top and bottom. Solid core door for a top. One end of the 7' bench holds a 250lb 3' square of thick granite that I use for assembly and the bench sits with the long axis on a slanted garage floor. There is an Emmert clone on the other end. The bench has had a lot of racking forces applied over the years, compounded by the weight of the granite and the slant of the floor....it's still as tight as the day it was made and solid as a rock. Would one bolt have done the same job? Dunno...but two didn't hurt, so if it makes you feel better, why not?

bench 032 (Small).JPG

[John Piwaron]

Nice work.

Thanks for reminding me of workbenches. That's something else I've built where I've used just one bolt at each joint that's been rock solid for many years. With a lot of pounding, hammering, pushing and what have you on it. Unlike yours, I don't have granite on it. Yet.

I'm just considering my options. I design things for a living. If I didn't at least consider other options when I'm designing I'd probably be canned for doing the "same old, same old"

I could well just go with the traditional 1 bolt joint. But I still have to think about my options.