Bed hardware - is mortised solid?

[David Tzeutschler]

Hello, I'm in the design process with a craftsman style panel bed, taking cues from John's Stickley Panel Bed at Eagle Lake Woodworking. I'd really rather not use bed bolts for hardware as I don't want holes in the legs or though-hardware. Does anyone have experience with the various mortised or surface-mounted bed hardware options available from Rockler, Lee Valley, etc? Or any other joinery methods that are solid and inconspicuous?
Specifically, I'd like something really solid but it need not come apart easily (don't plan on moving bed often).
Thanks for any input!
Dave

[John Spitters]

For the last bed (queen size) that I built it had 10-12" wide side boards so I used these http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...842,41269&ap=1 and doubled them up, one over the other (so I installed a total of eight of these on one bed) I also used the largest size. There is absolutely no movement in the frame of this bed it is rock solid, and since this bed was built for our many guests that seem to use our place as a weekend retreat that's a good thing.

John

[Ralph Boumenot]

Bite the bullet and use the bed bolts. I tried a couple of the no mortise things and the screws that hold them in place couldn't take the constant strain put on them. I had to take it off and make new rails and use bed bolts. Bed bolts with mortise and tenon jionery is rock solid. Be creative in hiding the hole.

[Dave Richards]

Ralph's suggestion is good. Get creative and hide the bed bolt hole.



How about reversing it? put the cross dowel in the leg with the hole drilled from the inside face and plugged if you can't put it behind a rail. Use a piece of all-thread inserted into the rail from the end. put a flat washer and a couple of hex nuts inserted through a hole in the inside face of the rail on the end of the all-thread. Use LocTite or make the second nut a locking nut. Make the hole in the side of the rail large enough to allow access to the nut with an open end wrench.

[Darius Ferlas]

This is my home grown solution that borrows heavily from other ideas bouncing around the net:

Major parts needed: T-nuts and threaded rods.
The leg of the bed's side was re-sawed, the t-nut inserted such that after gluing the resawed pieces back together the t-nut is not visible. To assemble the bed I thread the rods into the t-nuts in the legs and then their other ends into the holes in the rail. The rods are cut to 8" lengths.
I tested the strength of 5/16" and 3/8" t-nut/rod combinations and I am satisfied both have significantly more strength than needed for this application, though I have no numbers to offer. The pictures show the metal rods only, but I also used 1/2" dowels just for the heck of it.

This is the second bed of this exact design that I made. The first one is now about 3 yeas old, used daily and nightly and it is still as solid and squeak free as on day one.

[Jeff Bartley]

David,
Here are some pics of a bed I made, I think it was an article by Jeff Miller inspired the idea behind my solution. The basis of it is a full mortise and tenon headboard and footboard with bed rails that feature stub tenons and a bolt which threads into a nut which has been en-bedded into the tenon of the head/foot board.....see pics.....

tenonandnut.jpgstubmortise.jpg
next two pics will hopefully follow......

[Jeff Bartley]

These two pics show the rails fully bolted to the head/foot boards:

boltpocket.jpgboltcover.jpg

I'd encourage you to use full mortise and tenon construction----it's rock solid!

[Sam Murdoch]

Darius and Jeff those are two great options. Do the bolts really need to be as long as 8" though? Wouldn't 5" or 6" be sufficient? Don't know so I'm asking. I just built a sofa with the front and back rails using the fully mortised bed rail connectors that David T asked about. These were OK for my purposes but I think for a live action bed doubling up would be essential (but a real challenge to get perfect alignment) and so would favor the Darius/Jeff concepts. Excellent!

[Darius Ferlas]

Sam, the 8" lengths are used not because of any hard science. The threaded rod I had divided evenly into 8" lengths. That's all. I am sure 5 to 6" would be plenty, especially if the diameter of the hole housing the thread is only minimally larger. The idea is that the rods having a tight fit can act as carriers, not just as elements pulling the sides towards the rail.

In the first bed I used 3/8" rods and a M/T between the rods. For this bed I spent a couple days testing various scenarios with scraps and I decided that 5/16" is strong enough and I also replaced the M/T with 1/2" dowels placed between the rods.

ADDED:

Btw. I like Jeff's solution for the slat support near the bolt. My solution will work but is somewhat clumsier - a wider slat with 2 dowels on each end.


On that note, I wrapped the slats' ends with felt fabric since I figured that squeaking often results from the slats' bottoms and end rubbing against the slat support and against the rail. The fabric was attached by applying a thin layer of Weldbond, dry to touch and then the fabric pressed on with a hot iron, like the edging tape.

[David Tzeutschler]

Gentlemen,
Thanks so much for the great responses. All it took is some thought and the ingenuity of you fellas to come up with some great engineering ideas. I really like the mortise and tenon plus hidden bed bolts, as well as the T-nut version Darius mentioned. Thanks again for the great ideas and photos. I'll post when complete!
Dave

[Danny Thompson]

Racking. For the same reasons, i tried to avoid bed bolts. After installing, living with for several months, growing frustrated with, and replacing three different versions, I finally gave in. It all came down to racking. The connection was never secure enough to prevent squeeking or the bed rocking every time I rolled over in the bed. When I broke down and installed the bed bolts, all that went away, and I haven't regretted it for a second. Rockler's Classic Bed Bolt Covers hide the bolts; no one notices but me.

What failed:
- Bed rail hooks
- Heavy duty wrought steel bed rail fasteners
- Locking safety bed rail Brackets

Also, the bed bolts we a cinch to install and couldn't be more secure. It's been a year and a half, and they haven't required a single tightening.

[David Tzeutschler]

Darius-
I like your method and today purchased hardware to implement it, planning on using a mortise/tenon in the joint as well. One question - how do you get the drill holes in rails to be truly straight? I have a drill press--but not tall enough to bore holes in such long stock. In the past, I built a bed and had some trouble lining everything up exactly and getting those holes to match up with forstner-bit bored holes in the sides of rails. Any advice from you or others on how to make this work precise?
Thanks

[Darius Ferlas]

David,

To keep the bit straight I used a self centering doweling jig (like this one), except that I shimmed one side of the jig a little so the drilled channel is offset towards the inside of the rail. The idea was to eliminate any accidental drilling through the rail where my wooden "washers" are. You need to make sure that hole where the washers go is such that you have enough space for that first turn of the nut onto the threaded rod. It can get tight, but extra depth can be added later as needed.

Though the photos don't show it, the rail is offset from the front of the leg by about 1/4".

Here's the very bed, now finished in a mix of mahogany and brown walnut from a local stain brewery. The ash figure was a little bit of a disappointment so I decided to throw the stain at it.

Attachment 260805

[Sam Murdoch]

Geez, it's a beauty and suggestively rumpled . Nice work.

[Brent Ring]

I used Item B from this page - http://www.leevalley.com/en/Hardware...842,41269&ap=1 - coupled with Mortise and Tenon Joinery. I have had no complaints so far.