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Thread: Arkansas Naturals - Not ALL Stones Are Created Equal

  1. #1

    Arkansas Naturals - Not ALL Stones Are Created Equal

    Here at Neanderthal, as well as on other forums people have asked whether its worth buying the more expensive Arkansas stones. I payed some good cash and found out the hard way that like anything else you get what you pay for. So in the interest of saving my fellow Creekers some cash and also to shed some light on some hard won lessons I'm posting this. Somtimes naturals get a bad rap. Now I think I know why. And it ain't fair to the good naturals so here goes. Like most of us, I have experimented with a fair number of sharpening methods. I bought a Tormek years ago so the primary bevel was never an issue. The goal was producing a razor sharp secondary bevel quickly and easily. I had given natural stones a whirl, buying two Pro Edge brands stones – a Hard White Arkansas and a fine Hard Black Arkansas. Neither stone cut worth a Damn – PERIOD. So, I pretty much gave up on naturals and invested in Japanese waterstones and have a respectable set of good quality ones. Still, the water, the mess, and flattening them was a pain. Then I came across a small forty-year-old Smiths Hard White Arkansas I had as kid. Well it sure did not look like the chalky thing that Pro-Edge called a Hard White Arkansas. The old Smiths was much more quartz-like in appearance AND IT REALLY CUT THE STEEL AND SHARPENED. Well that got me to thinking! So I decided to give naturals another try. This time I ordered a stone from Dan’s. I got a Hard black Arkansas (ultra fine) . Boy what a difference! You could immediately feel and HEAR the difference as it quickly put a razor edge on my A2 chisel blades. I have concluded several things from this. One: there is some truth to the tale that true Novaculite is played out. Its obviously true of some quarrys that are providing useless stones. Secondly, the reputation of naturals as being really slow cutting is probably in part due to the fact that these miserable stones are out there tarnishing the reputation of the genuine article. And of course another obvious conclusion is that there is still real true Novaculite available from reputable dealers like Dan’s. The Dan’s stone I received was superb. It cut hard A2 steel quickly and provided a razor edge. It was also dead flat right out of the box. I bought the Pro Edge because its was far less expensive than Dan’s, but I may as well have lit a cigar with the money. The old stones were probably all of the Smiths quality. Those days are gone, but the real thing is available and its real nice stuff, just as good as the old days, but you have to pay for it like anything else.

  2. #2
    I bought a set of stones from natural whetstone company and have been very satisfied with these stones. I got a soft, hard, and hard black (not the hard trans) the hard black was 69.00 for a 10x3x1 so big difference as compared to a 200.00 dollar stone for hard trans in the same size. I use green compound on mdf after the hard black and get hair shaving results with a2 and nares chisels. Not sure how much sharper you would need unless you were going to do surgery on yourself. Just wanted to put in a good word for natural whetstone great product flat stones and fair price. Give them a look if you are shopping.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Chicago-ish
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    352
    I recently bought a hard black and soft Arkansas from Natural Whetstone company too --- great prices. I've been using these and a sypderco UF ceramic as my "touch up" stones. So far, so good.
    clamp the work
    to relax the mind

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    DuBois, PA
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    1,904
    I know I'll kick myself in the butt for saying this, but look at flea markets and antique malls for stones. Dirt cheap as they're hard for the seller to identify. Rule of thumb is if the stone feels fine, it will cut like a fine stone!!!. I've got a hoard of stones with most only costing me a couple of bucks, although I willingly pay more for stones with fancy boxes, as generally a craftsman from old, would make a very elaborate box for his prized tools (stones included).

    Also, learn to free hand sharpen and you can use all those 1-1/2" X 5" stones that are out there.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  5. #5
    Dan's black and translucent stones are probably the finest ones I've seen, on par with vintage stones. All of the different sellers treat the surfaces of their stones differently. I think naturalwhetstone gives them to you off the diamond saw or off of a coarse lap, the dan's stones are lapped very finely, to the point that they are somewhat broken in like you'd get from use, and the halls pro edge stones are cut on something that doesn't leave the one I had close to flat, and I know other people who say the same (that's a bad thing on ark stones, unless you get a really big discount for the hassle).

    The halls black that I had was the least impressive of the finishing stones I've gotten (coarse when scuffed and didn't cut once broken in - but more than one person has told me they like theirs, so I may have gotten a dud), the new nortons are the next least impressive (the last 1/2" translucent I got from them barely barely passed light from an extremely bright flashlight, and scuffed next to any other finish stone I've gotten, it's very coarse), and the vintage and dans stones are both excellent, but good luck finding vintage stones in something other than 2x6 and 2x8, and if they have a norton label on them and any other educated buyers are exposed to them, you'll pay the price.

    At the same time, the dan's softer stones aren't so impressive. They cut too fine and slow. For coarse stones, the vintage washitas are excellent (stay away from the new ones) and the natural whetstone hard and soft arks are very good coarse stones.

    Keep your eyes open at the clearance section of the sierra trading post. They have dan's seconds from time to time, and they always have goofy coupons that give you another 20-30% off whatever you buy. I've gotten a trans stone 8x2x1/2 for $38 there, which I stupidly sold later, and a black 2x6x1/2 for razors for $27. Both are excellent.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Charlotte, MI
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    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    I know I'll kick myself in the butt for saying this, but look at flea markets and antique malls for stones. Dirt cheap as they're hard for the seller to identify. Rule of thumb is if the stone feels fine, it will cut like a fine stone!!!. I've got a hoard of stones with most only costing me a couple of bucks, although I willingly pay more for stones with fancy boxes, as generally a craftsman from old, would make a very elaborate box for his prized tools (stones included).

    Also, learn to free hand sharpen and you can use all those 1-1/2" X 5" stones that are out there.
    Right on! My favorite finishing stone is a vintage trans ark that is, I believe, 2 x 6. Not big enough for a honing guide but plenty big for a freehander. Plus, I scored a vintage Norton combination india, in box, over the weekend at an antique store in Chesaning. Three bucks and it works great! Needed a good cleaning and a slight flattening on the side of my favorite concrete block. I think the edge from the fine india side is good enough for a lot of work, without having to go to the trans ark.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  7. #7
    I got an old Norton from my FIL and don't know whether it is hard or soft, any idea how to tell? Sorry for the hijack...

  8. #8
    Norton has switched their nomenclature around off and on. If you post a picture of it, we can tell what it is most likely. If it has any translucence or it's black, it's a fine stone.

    In the old days, they labeled their fine stones as "hard" and not "translucent" or anything like that, so if it has the word hard on it at all and it's old, it's a finish stone.

    Any box, label or anything. There are gobs more vintage india/carborundum combinations and medium/fine indias out there than anything else.

    Obviously, pike/norton also marketed what is probably the finest soft novaculite stone ever sold - the pike washita stones of the no. 1 and lily white types. If it's vintage norton and natural, regardless of what it is, it'll probably be a good stone.

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